Tom,

Like many on this list, we started out using personal credit cards. And in the beginning, we did make the subs pay for the equipment. However, we've been in business since 1995 and doing wireless since 1997. Also, you have to be willing to sign a "personal guarantee" on the leases, at least in the beginning. But really, that's not any different than any bank, which will do the same. You will also have to start small (maybe $10k or $15k) for the first lease, and get some payment history behind you. Then as time goes on, they will just get easier and easier. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:

Travis,

That is an interesting point. You are full of all sorts of clever ideas. But how do you get past the, "need to be in business for two years to get financing", problem?

How do you manage that on the books? Doesn't it cost you more than you are saving with the Lease terms? For a while I was doing cell sites (payables) through a seperate company than Receivables (Subscribers) for liabilty reasons. B ut I stopped it was to big a pain in the neck to take care of two setes of books, and instantly at a glance, see how the company is doing.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices


The biggest problem is a bank will have a hard time allowing you to continue to grow. With leasing companies, I can just continue to use a new company each time, then not a single company takes all the risk. At a certain point, the bank will just say "no", and then you will be stuck. :(

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Not true. We have a couple of different lines. They were hard to get, we actually get run under a program for farmers, but we have them.

Believe me though, I can't wait till I get rid of them too though!

Marlon
(509) 982-2181                                   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices


True.... but no bank is going to setup a line of credit for a WISP. It's just too risky... equipment is at hundreds of different locations, they have no control over anything about it, etc.

Travis


Tom DeReggi wrote:

Not that I disagree with you, just that at the end of the day what matters most, is who will lend you the money. From the beginning of time, Banks have always been more strict on who they lend to and for what than a leasing company. Sure, once you got a good working relationship with a bank, great, but very few WISPs will be in that position early on. Atleast that is what I have seen to date. Revenue from a paying subscriber today, at just about any rate, is almost always better than not having the revenue from the potential subscriber at all. The arguement I use is, if you get a customer just one month earlier, thats $50 more money you make, Almost a 12% saving right off the bat for getting them installed a month earlier. If a finance company can get the amount approved quickly, without a bunch of paperwork to delay everything, I'd argue that they deserve the extra percentages that they are getting on the deal. So my view is its not about rate, its about flexibilty and speed. If I can get a Line of Credit , that lets me take the money out in small chunks paying the interest only on funds taken out, thats much better than a low interest rate loan that I need to commit to a huge lot all at once, to sit on the shelf.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- From: "Mac Dearman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices




$12.00 X 36Mos = $420.00per CPE + loan costs, fees...etc

Sounds like to me you lost your "good deal" to the finance company. I understand that they may be a necessary evil, but I still say that you are far ahead in this game if you need to have something financed to go to your local bank, borrow the money there with all the added benefits of a much more sensible interest rate, you can pay out early and not pay any of the extra interest whereas with the leasing company you can pay out early - - but you still pay all their interest so the point is moot. I do have one lease active - - but it will be the only one I ever do!

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600




Travis Johnson wrote:

Yes, all of the leases I do are 36 month, $1 buyout. So after 3 years I own the equipment. We figure 50% of the radios will still be functioning, and will then be free. We base our monthly rate on paying about $12 per month per CPE.

Travis
Microserv

Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

Are you on a lease to own program??




Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

114 S. Walnut St.

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

www.wavelinc.com


-----Original Message-----
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson
*Sent:* Saturday, December 17, 2005 5:37 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices


I don't sell product, and I can't sell any of these as they are leased. Leasing is the only way to make a WISP competitive and grow. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

how much will you sell them for?

Travis Johnson wrote:

Hi,

I just received my shipment of 900mhz units last week. I can tell you I paid much, much less than $420.... but I am buying 250 units at a time. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Rick Smith wrote:


Travis has gotta be full of it!


Distributors for Trango previously, when buying in 100 packs, never got prices better than 420...


------------------------------------------------------------------------



*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:08 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices

You get Trango cheaper?  Prices please!

Travis Johnson wrote:

Wow.... that's more than I pay for the Trango 900mhz and it has dual polarity integrated antennas. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Ron Wallace wrote:

My Man.  Brian, Excellent.


---- Original message ----


Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:53:40 -0500

From: Brian Rohrbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices
To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>


 Read it and weep "nay sayers"  ;-)


 I found a VAR to work with.


 Prices for canopy 900.


 Connectorized-  $262.60

 Integrated-  $328.7


 All details are being posted to "Principal Members List".

 You must be a paid WISPA member to take advantage of the

 offer.

 I'd like to get an estimate of volume to the VAR.
 Pay up to WISPA and hit me offlist to how many you think you

 could use a month (you won't be committed to this, it's just

 for a general idea)


 Brian


 Ron Wallace wrote:


Go for it Brian, Doesn't matter what others think, if we can save some

money, good.


Ron Wallace


---- Original message ----



Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:58:47 -0500

From: Brian Rohrbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>


I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it.


First step. Principal Members only. You want a deal, fork over 200

some bucks and support the industry.

Second step. Find 10 people who want ten units. (500 if possible,



but



prolly 100 pack to start)

Third step.  Go to moto website and look up resellers.

fourth step. Call resellers and get quote. Say "look here. I have a

buying group. I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped



to



10 addresses.  Send me a quote to email"  Forward quote to next



reseller



and go from there.  Whoever is cheaper wins.  If they want the



business



of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal. Am I

acting like a know it all Charles? Would all the resellers say screw

you if I approached like this?

If all resellers say we can't do this.....then I would (big trust



here)



run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship



from



here.  Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra

shipping....don't know what that would be, but it would be figured

before hand.


I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work.  Only



question



is how warranty is handled. By MAC addy or by who bought the radio.


Someone let me know if my approach is out of line. Never done this



and



might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls)


Brian


A. Huppenthal wrote:




Charles,


I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact



is



I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't

difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a

closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to



apples.



I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization.


However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send



Jim,



George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs

if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need



support,



training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer.

Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct

to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors

for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't

pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*..


Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly

doesn't support group buys.


The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it



ends



when the product is delivered.



Charles Wu wrote:




<snip>

You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up

eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in

being a volume club.

</snip>


We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP



and



getting a T1 line


Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally

attest

to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your

proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP


Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying



group



faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that



the



buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor



will



require cash up front for the purchase


So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses

Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase



that 500



pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)

Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store

stuff

Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics

guy to

repackage / ship stuff


On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to

purchasing

the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to



unforseen



things

that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers



don't



sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)


So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell



excess



units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative



fee /



margin to compensate)


In the meantime, either


1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line,

and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a



huge



loss)

2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new "flavor of



the



month" and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/



$100k



worth of boat anchors


-Charles



-------------------------------------------

CWLab

Technology Architects

http://www.cwlab.com





--

Brian Rohrbacher

Reliable Internet, LLC

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Cell 269-838-8338


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"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17

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Ron Wallace

Hahnron, Inc.

220 S. Jackson St.

Addison, MI 49220


Phone:  (517) 547-8410

Mobile:  (517) 605-4542

e-mail:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




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Reliable Internet, LLC

www.reliableinter.net <http://www.reliableinter.net>

Cell 269-838-8338


"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17


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Cell 269-838-8338


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