You can find pretty comprehensive listings at :


-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP - and rants

Yes, but I have not ever blocked anyone. I am making hypothetical comments.

However your point is well taken.

> level3 same plan.

The differnce is Level 3 lets me know the plan upfront. Second, LEVEL3 may 
deserve the right to charge. Level3 is not a new startup like CommPartners. 
Level3 is leading the country as a national tier1 transit provider.  They 
are the big fish, and they probably have the right to act like one, and 
demand any terms that they want. .

> There are 1200 VOIP Providers.

Do you know where to find that list of 1200 providers? I've found only about

enough to fill one hand full of fingers, regarding wholesale.

> The billing is the key.

Thats exactly why I do not want to go through a third party. I either want 
my partner to bill my client directly, or I want to villthem and only have 
one bill to cross reference the one from the carrier that tracks it and 
provides it.  Doing VOIP through a middle man will be a nightmare from the 
billing point of view. That need to be avoided at all cost.  Try and get a 
credit, when the overbilling start, going through a third party. I'vebeen 
there done that. With one compnay the over billing got to be over $20,000 a 
month. I had no recourse to cure it, as I had no agreement with the provider

tracking the costs, and the reseller wouldn't fix it for me or waive it 
until the provider did. It becomes a nightmare. Must be avoided. A perfect 
reason why companies like Commpartners should do direct deals not through 
resellers. ONce they have a billing system in palce that can accommodate the

middle man and cure the man in the middle billing headaches, thats fine, 
build a resller middle man channel. But until then, dont do it.

Blocking may not be the right approach. I'm undecided.

> Maybe someone else can get around those issues.

They can't. Exactly why I suggest Commpartners should go direct and avoid 
the problems of a middle man. And why I didn;t suggest a COOP, like some 
people misunderstood.  My goal is to simplify billing not make it more 

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP - and rants

> Tom,
> This huge thread about CP is amazing.
> If you don't want to use them, or don't like their business plan. Fine.
> It is the same plan that Level(3) has, so I don't understand the big deal.
> You seem really peeved about the initial fee. How is that any different 
> than an install fee?
> There are 1200 VOIP Providers. Go get one and get rolling.
> Not all of them get your plan. Heck, many of them, don't get my business 
> plan and view of the world, but that's life.
> I work with the ones that do - clients and vendors.
> About the volume buying:
> We (II4A - spoke with CP and others about volume buying DSL,

> VOIP, DBS, etc.
> The billing is th key. No one (I have spoken with) wants to bill 
> individual ISPs under a Volume umbrella.
> Most want to bill II4A and then II4A bills its members.
> Two problems:
> Billing is overhead that increases the cost of the service (by about $2 
> per bill).
> Collections and cash flow - you have 15 days to pay. How do you collect 
> from all the coop members?
> What if a few can't or won't pay? It affects EVERYONE else's business.
> Deposits, automatic debit, ACH, etc. are a pain - and, since I know you 
> despise initialation fees, would be a barrier to entry for the little guy.
> Those are the realities of volume buying that I have dealt with for 4 
> years.
> Maybe someone else can get around those issues.
> BTW, a little CYA:
> If I was in your market, competing against you and read your comments on 
> blocking/prioritize, etc., I would use it in my marketing against you. It 
> would only take a little push and it could knock you down. Trust me on 
> this. People like controversy more than anything.
> Regards,
> Peter
> RAD-INFO, Inc.
> 813-963-5884
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