Here is the part that really sucks....

I have an asterisk box setup, and five customers beta testing voip on my network. It works fine. Those five customers have used a grand total of 1003 minutes so far this month. My cost for termination minutes is .02 per minute, with a $5/month charge per DID line, so it cost me about $8/month to provide service for each of the beta customers. This is something I can sell for $25 to $30/month, and it is competitive with Packet8/Vonage/etc because the voice quality is superior (the SIP gateway is at the NOC, so no one is more than 40 ms away and I can control the network between them and the SIP box). Even if I get a bunch of people who use a lot more minutes, my average margin per customer would be in the $12 range. 50% margin? Yeah, I think that works for me.

So far, LNP is not a big deal - it's pretty easy to get a toll-free line. But the 911 requirement is a problem. The whole PSAP setup where the local authorities get their 911 information is a joke. CLECs control access and can charge whatever they want - plus there is a charge for every communication center connection. I see two "out of the box" ways to deal with the 911 requirement. The first, is to have a wifi/gsm phone, and roaming agreements with GSM providers. Then , responsibility for the 911 call is shifted to the GSM provider.

The second is to build some kind of Internet-enabled way of bypassing the PSAP system and delivering the information directly to the local communication center. It is too expensive for a smaller operator (or even a medium sized operator for that matter) to implement the traditional PSAP T1 connection method to get out to each comm center. Until that is resolved, there will only be big operators and little guys living under the radar, hoping that no one busts them for not being 911 compliant.

Matt Larsen

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

I'm just looking to offer customers an alternative to the phone line.

That is, I'd like to give them an excuse to drop the Qwest copper line, keep
phone service, and give me the money instead.

And for those who live outside any other broadband, I can make a package
deal that puts them right in there with what they'd get if the telco did
move in... in other words, NO REASON TO LEAVE IN THE FUTURE.

North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP

The margin in consumer VOIP is disappearing. The costs of the
infrastructure including DIDs and 911 implementation have slammed the
industry. Read Vonage's IPO to better understand the 911 liability and

In a couple of cases I have consulted on, the local CO was not
accessible by any CLEC, so no LNP, so no one to outsource the VOIP to.

BOCs have learned that most consumers switch to VOIP for cost savings,
so have lowered their costs. Plus cableco's have gotten into the game
(and can do 911) and bundle on one bill.

You can try to do it yourself (and Asterisk is a GREAT tool for this),
but if you aren't a CLEC, how do you handle 911 and LNP?

Now if you wanted to sell Hosted PBX to Businesses, that's valuable.



Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

I don't understand your point about "selling on margins".

I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are
currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail

There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP
with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per

I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin.  I just said I wanted something I
could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to
get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs
more than retail.

If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange.
best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and
customer service.    I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing
with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure.
seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why.     Lots of
ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages,
would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe
not.   The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective
scale upwards, more so than customer service.

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