You seem to making the assumption that the services you are comparing are the same. In our case, our VoIP provides significantly better quality than offered by Vonage. Further, we can actually support fax, which tons of VoIP providers fall down on including Vonage. Thus, I don't have to offer retail voice at the same price as Vonage.

Customers are stupid unless they want to be. Explain how relying upon VoIP over the internet will likely result in poor quality and compare that with a VoIP service controlled by the owner of the network. If you control the entire network from the CPE to your softswitch then outside of incompetence, the Vonages of the world can't compete.

-Matt

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless
Services--SomeObservations


<snip>
I desperately need a GOOD VOIP wholesale deal, where I own the customer
and
do frontline support, it's my own brand (if I brand it) and I merely  bulk
buy minutes, numbers, and CPE.    I can't sell my customers a 400 minute
account that costs me 25 bucks a month.  They can buy Packet8 for less
than
most resell deals.
</snip>

You're thinking like the "ISP techie" -- e.g., if I'm not better / cheaper
/
faster...then I can't be in business

Obviously, this isn't how things work

Charles, you assume far too much.   This is Mark The Businessman talking.

You see, if I can't provide my customers good value for thier money, then I
have no business taking thier money.

It's how I sleep at night and it's my duty to my fellow man.   Maybe some
folks out there will rape the customer for all he can get from him... I
cannot do so in good conscience.

I do not have to be "cheaper".  I have to provide the customer good value
for his money.    Darn, that's old fashioned.  My God, it's moralistic.
Heavens, it's totally out of fashion "loyalty to customers"...

Whatever it is, that's how I do business, and if you're here to tell me
"this isn't how things work" then don't waste your breath.    I'm not
looking to be the cheapest on earth.   I am NOT the "cheapest" you can get
for broadband where I am.   But I am good value for the money.   And that's
what I want to offer for VOIP service, too.

Case in point -- I know of a market that consists of 2 Canopy WISPs -- the
owners / principles of one come from a techie / residential ISP
background,
and sell wireless broadband connections (various rates of 1 Mb, 2 Mb, 3 Mb
burstable connections) for $29-69 / month

In the same market, the 2nd Canopy WISP has people who come from a carrier
/
enterprise sales background, and they sell the EXACT SAME WIRELESS
CONNECTION (from a technological standpoint that is, it's still an
unlicensed Motorola SM / AP) for $300-600 / month

Now, it is worth noting that the guys in WISP #2 are 100 lbs overweight,
have grey hair, and wear suits, while the guys in WISP #1 (although in
their
late 20s now) -- still resemble adolescent college fraternity kids

However, when they first hit the market, I was thinking, jeez, these guys
(WISP #2) are absolutely nuts, they're morons, trying to sell overpriced
@#$@ -- they'll never turn on a customer

Yet consistently, I see guys from WISP #2 outsell guys from WISP #1 in
competitive deals (e.g., customer has a T1 line they're paying $500 /
month
for, and WISP #1 comes in and tries to sell a 3 Mb connection for $69 --
nothing happens -- 3 months later, WISP #2 comes in and sells a 3 Mb
"dedicated" connection for $600 / month to the same customer)

Go figure...

They say "There's a sucker born every minute".   I will not take advantage
of them.

When I reach the end of my life it will not matter if I were rich or poor,
only whether I can face my Maker with a clean conscience.


North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

-Charles


-------------------------------------------
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com



-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:09 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services
--SomeObservations


Quote:  "> IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... "

yes, it is.   More to the point, it's about meeting your customer's needs
or
wants.

Not shoving things at them they don't need or want, but genuinely
discovering what it is that sparks them to buy in the first place.



I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move
from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for
me
to do.   Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find.
Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP
system
for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale"
programs.
What I really need, then, is someone who does more of the backend stuff
(including providing e911)  but does so in mass quantity, and doesn't
"touch" my customer.

I've also found that pc service can be a good side venture, but I'm not
convinced that we can actually compete on price with the computer store.
If
we're busy, it's better value for our time to install and support our own
services.

Just random thoughts on the topic...




North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-
----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com>
Cc: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:45 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations


Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of
"what's
the best radio" or "who's got those cool blue lights" -- however,
FWIW,
I've
noticed that there seldom is any debate on "useful" topics like sales
& marketing (especially of the product positioning of license-exempt
wireless)
Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But
fuel
the fire with a few observations

-----------------------------------------
<rant>
-----------------------------------------

ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User.  This is the
average revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged
the same
price
-- with some customers charged less and others more.  Customer type
usually
determines price.  In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a
direct multiple of its ARPU.

The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level /
Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following
license-exempt
broadband wireless "WiMAX" connections have been calculated as
follows:

Broadband "Lite" Residential Service
(512 / 512 Kb Burstable)
MRR: $24.95
MRC: $20

Best Effort Residential Service
(5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable)
MRR: $39.95
MRC: $20

Best Effort Business Class Service
(5 Mb / 1 Mb Burstable)
MRR: $149.95
MRC: $25

Dedicated Business Class Service
(5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable)
(1 Mb / 1 Mb Dedicated)
MRR: $249.95
MRC: $30

Dedicated Business SLA Service
(5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable)
(3 Mb / 3 Mb Dedicated)
MRR: $449.95
MRC: $40

Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the
overall health of the bottom line.

Interestingly enough, all the following service plans are achieved
using
the
EXACT SAME license-exempt broadband wireless access technology.  So
why is the differentiating factor that allows some WISPs to sell that
Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection for $300+ month
ARPU while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU?

IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY...

-----------------------------------------
<rant>
-----------------------------------------

-Charles

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