Unfortunately, such CPE are not going to happen in 5.8GHz, WiMAX or not.
Neither the band physics or power limits allow for it.

There are a host of other major issues surrounding UL WiMAX that all work
against it appearing any time this year. These include at least the
following:
- the uncertainty over 3650MHz. This is a much better potential WiMAX UL
band than 5.8GHz for three reasons - power, physics, and less ambient
interference (no consumer devices).
- the WiMAX Forum profile for UL WiMAX only includes 5.8GHz, so it excludes
355MHz of band in 5GHz. 
- the 802.16 MAC is poorly suited as written for unlicensed bands since it
assumes no competition for the air and has no mechanism for battling
interference. Thus the formation by the IEEE of TG 802.16h, a task group we
chair that is trying to come up with some technology neutral method for
sharing bands, even among competing technologies like 802.11 and 802.16.
- lack of self-install limits the creation of a mass market
- existing UL equipment prices are already at thresholds for where WiMAX CPE
will be later this year and WiMAX base stations are much more expensive than
UL APs
- the only UL WIMAX profile covers only 802.16d-2004, known as fixed WiMAX.
The ratification of 802.16e-2005 largely will result in .e superseding .d
since .e can also be used for fixed, but provides soft migration path to
full mobile. For example, the North American versions of BreezeMAX we are
bringing will be 802.16e-2005, bypassing .d entirely. 

All these things stack the cards against UL WiMAX, at least in a 5.8GHz
variant. That is also why for UL in 5GHz we lead with BreezeACCESS VL and
will for some time. We believe it to be the UL 5GHz of record, especially
with upcoming firmware version 4.0, which, among other things brings 802.3
QinQ VLAN, automatic channel bandwidth scanning and selection, over 40,000
pps and with the new MAP (multimedia application prioritization) feature
allows for simultaneous VoIP calls per sector of as much as 280 WITH a MOS
score of 4.0, which is very high voice QoS. That is a 750% increase over
previous VoIP performance. I realize the average WISP thinks VL is just your
basic Atheros chipset in an outdoor case, but the reality is far different.
In our stuff, the chips are just the basic building block.

Patrick Leary
AVP Marketing
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment

Is Alvarion going to do the same for 5.8G unlicensed Wimax?
All though license and high power may not be there, the technical features 
could have a major positive impact.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:40 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment


> A. More power Tom. B. Much more sophistication in the equipment yielding
> much higher spectral efficiency and system gain.
>
> Frequency plays a major role, but you need to understand that other 
> factors
> are of almost similar levels of importance. For example, our 802.16e 
> version
> of WiMAX uses SOFDMA with beam forming and 4th order diversity at the base
> station and MIMO with 6 antennae embedded in the self-install CPE with a 
> SIM
> card. Couple that with higher power available in a licensed allocation and
> you get zero truck roll self-install CPE with no external antenna.
>
> Patrick Leary
> AVP Marketing
> Alvarion, Inc.
> o: 650.314.2628
> c: 760.580.0080
> Vonage: 650.641.1243
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:23 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>
>> 3.5Ghz does,
>
> I find that hard to believe.  2.4Ghz couldn't do it, which is why we rely 
> on
>
> 900Mhz.
>
> What makes 3.5Ghz appropriate for the task?
>
> With 3650 from what I understood, is only supposed to be allowed for PtP 
> or
> mobile service only (not indoor) based on the high power levels allowed.
>
> Not sure whats at the other 3.5G ranges in US.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "jeffrey thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>
>
>> The benchmark is the ability to provide NLOS, portable or fixed service
>> to at least a 2 mile radius per cell, indoors.
>>
>> 5.8 doesnt really give true NLOS to that distance indoors
>>
>> 5.4 doesnt really give true NLOS to that distance indoors
>>
>> 4.9 doesnt really give true NLOS to that disance indoors
>>
>> 3.5Ghz does, to "portable" devices similar to the equipment used by
>> clearwire. Airspan for example claims their wimax solution works indoors
>> to about 3 miles out, which is pretty good IMHO.
>>
>> When you can deliver a zero truck roll model with 90% or above
>> availablity, is when operators by the truckload will deploy equipment.
>> At that point, you will see deployments in the thousands, like the ones
>> in mexico of 750,000 homes serviced.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 25 May 2006 02:20:23 -0400, "Tom DeReggi"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>>> How do you figure?
>>> You don't think 5.4 is going to solve part of that?
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jeffrey Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:55 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>>>
>>>
>>> > Frankly,
>>> >
>>> > The FCC should really hurry up and finish the rules to allow the
>>> > industry
>>> > to
>>> > really take off. The common view with most manufacturers I have found
>>> > is
>>> > that until there is 3.5ghz or near spectrum available, there will be
>>> > small
>>> > and limited deployments of wisp size and not many large scale
>>> > deployments
>>> > outside of 2.5ghz or 700 mhz operators.
>>> >
>>> > -
>>> >
>>> > Jeff
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 5/24/06 6:14 AM, "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> All the same time, the industry doesn't bother to fill out their Form
>>> >> 477s
>>> >> also
>>> >>
>>> >> The sad thing is is that there are long term consequences towards
>>> >> "flaunting
>>> >> the rules" -- namely the fact that you are just reinforcing the ILEC
>>> >> argument that unlicensed spectrum just creates a bunch of "cowboys"
>>> >> that
>>> >> can't be taken seriously
>>> >>
>>> >> Heck, even Marlon knows better than to wear his skin-tight pink
>>> >> flamingo
>>> >> suit when he represents the industry in DC
>>> >>
>>> >> -Charles
>>> >>
>>> >> -------------------------------------------
>>> >> CWLab
>>> >> Technology Architects
>>> >> http://www.cwlab.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> >> On
>>> >> Behalf Of jeffrey thomas
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:37 PM
>>> >> To: WISPA General List
>>> >> Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> In the larger scale of things- when you compare this to a carrier
>>> >> deployment
>>> >> which would deliver thousands of CPE's service, this is a test. I 
>>> >> know
>
>>> >> of
>>> >> one company that has recieved 28 STA's for 14 markets, for over 2000
>>> >> CPE.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -
>>> >>
>>> >> Jeff
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, 23 May 2006 21:33:33 -0400, "Gino A. Villarini"
>>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> >> said:
>>> >>> Do you really think towerstream need 150 field units or cpes to
>>> >>> "test"
>>> >>> a single base station?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> >>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> >>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> >>> On Behalf Of Jack Unger
>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:07 PM
>>> >>> To: WISPA General List
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Gino,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Is Towerstream doing this - using 3650 to deliver commercial 
>>> >>> service?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> jack
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Towerstream anyone ?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> >>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> >>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>> >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> >>>> On Behalf Of Jack Unger
>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:56 PM
>>> >>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Jeffrey,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I have to question the "judgement ability" (or the lack of it) of
>>> >>>> anyone
>>> >>>> who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a licensed
>>> >>>> "experimental" system and using it for a commercial,
>>> >>>> revenue-generating
>>> >>>> purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO):
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> 1. Someone with no business sense
>>> >>>> 2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the
>>> >>>> enforcement
>>> >>>> powers of the FCC
>>> >>>> 3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy
>>> >>>> 4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable,
>>> >>>> long-term
>>> >>>> WISP service.
>>> >>>>                jack
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> jeffrey thomas wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Patrick,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> It doesnt change the fact that many have launched "limited"
>>> >>>>> deployments as a "test" but still charged for the access service,
>>> >>>>> banking on the fact that the FCC has set the band aside for
>>> >>>>> unlicensed anyways, and that the chance of the FCC cracking down 
>>> >>>>> on
>>> >>>>> them is very low.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will be
>>> >>>>> evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my sources
>>> >>>>> that is available today will be compliant. *shrug*
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> -
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Jeff
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, "Patrick Leary"
>>> >>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch 
>>> >>>>>> any
>>> >>>>>> commercial services using 3650MHz.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> - Patrick
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>>>>> From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM
>>> >>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> >>>>>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be
>>> >>>>>> "breaking the law" w/ a 3650 deployment
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------
>>> >>>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>> >>>>>> Cc: <isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com>;
>>> >>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM
>>> >>>>>> Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz
>>> >>>>>> Band -
>>> >>>>>> Clarifications
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements 
>>> >>>>>> promising
>>> >>>>>> turn-key 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of avoiding
>>> >>>>>> interference in congested
>>> >>>>>> license-exempt ISM/UNII bands.  Although the FCC issued adopted
>>> >>>>>> rules
>>> >>>>>> back
>>> >>>>>> in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless
>>> >>>>>> broadband
>>> >>>>>> in
>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>> 3.65 GHz band, a "minor" contention-based requirement has delayed
>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>> deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as
>>> >>>>>> equipment
>>> >>>>>> manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the
>>> >>>>>> details.
>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> As
>>> >>>>>> things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today falls
>>> >>>>>> under
>>> >>>>>> Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Infrastructure Investment & Experimentation under Part 5 needs to
>>> >>>>>> be done strictly from a "curiosity" perspective rather than one 
>>> >>>>>> of
>>> >>>>>> "commercial network expansion."  Part 5 permits experimentation 
>>> >>>>>> in
>>> >>>>>> scientific or technical operations directly related to the use of
>>> >>>>>> radio waves. The rules provide the opportunity to experiment with
>>> >>>>>> new techniques or new services prior to submitting proposals to
>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>> FCC to change its rules.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be
>>> >>>>>> permitted to conduct the following type of operations:
>>> >>>>>> (a)    Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research
>>> >>>>>> (b)   Experimentations under contractual agreement with the 
>>> >>>>>> United
>>> >> States
>>> >>>>>> Government, or for export purposes.
>>> >>>>>> (c)    Communications essential to a research project.
>>> >>>>>> (d)   Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques.
>>> >>>>>> (e)    Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for
>>> >>>>>> authorization
>>> >>>>>> in
>>> >>>>>> any other service.
>>> >>>>>> (f)     Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by
>>> >>>>>> persons
>>> >>>>>> engaged in the business of selling radio equipment.
>>> >>>>>> (g)    Testing of equipment in connection with production or
>>> >>>>>> regulatory
>>> >>>>>> approval of such equipment.
>>> >>>>>> (h)    Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering
>>> >>>>>> data
>>> >> not
>>> >>>>>> related to an existing or proposed service, including field or
>>> >>>>>> factory testing or calibration of equipment.
>>> >>>>>> (i)      Development of radio technique, equipment, operational
>>> >>>>>> data
>>> >>>>>> or
>>> >>>>>> engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio 
>>> >>>>>> service.
>>> >>>>>> (j)     Limited market studies.
>>> >>>>>> (k)   Types of experiments that are not specifically covered 
>>> >>>>>> under
>>> >>>>>> paragraphs (a) through (j) of this section will be considered 
>>> >>>>>> upon
>>> >>>>>> demonstration of need
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 47CFR5.51: Eligibility of License
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> (a)    Authorizations for stations in the Experimental Radio
>>> >>>>>> Service
>>> >> will
>>> >>>>>> be
>>> >>>>>> issued only to persons qualified to conduct experimentation
>>> >>>>>> utilizing radio waves for scientific or technical operation data
>>> >>>>>> directly related to a use
>>> >>>>>> of radio not provided by existing rules; or for communications in
>>> >>>>>> connection
>>> >>>>>> with research projects when existing communications facilities 
>>> >>>>>> are
>>> >>>>>> inadequate.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 47CFR5.63: Supplementary Statements
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> (a)    Each applicant for an authorization in the Experimental
>>> >>>>>> Radio
>>> >>>>>> Service
>>> >>>>>> must enclose with the application a narrative statement 
>>> >>>>>> describing
>>> >>>>>> in detail the program of research and experimentation proposed,
>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>> specific objectives sought to be accomplished; and how the 
>>> >>>>>> program
>>> >>>>>> of experimentation
>>> >>>>>> has a reasonable promise of contribution to the development,
>>> >>>>>> extension,
>>> >>>>>> or
>>> >>>>>> expansion, or utilization of the radio art, or is along lines not
>>> >> already
>>> >>>>>> investigated.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> For further information regarding experimental licensing, the FCC
>>> >>>>>> has a nice online FAQ that gives a step-by-step how-to on
>>> >>>>>> experimental licensing: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/elbfaqs.html
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>> >>>>>> CWLab
>>> >>>>>> Technology Architects
>>> >>>>>> http://www.cwlab.com
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
> *******************************************************************
>>> >>>>>> ******
>>> >>> *
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> **
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>> ********
>>> >>>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned 
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>>> >>>>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals &
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>>> >>>
>>> >>>>>
> *************************************************************************
>>> >>> *
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> **
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>> ********
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
> *******************************************************************
>>> >>>>>> ******
>>> >>> *
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> **
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>> ********
>>> >>>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned 
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> *************************************************************************
>>> >>> *
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> **
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>> ********
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
>>> >>> Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
>>> >>> Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
>>> >>> True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
>>> >>> Our next WISP Workshop is June 21-22 in Atlanta, GA.
>>> >>> Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
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>>> >>>
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>>> >>>
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -- 
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>>> >
>>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>> >
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>>>
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>>
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