Disclaimer- My techs did all the testing and hands on configurations, so I'm responding third hand.

To bridge correctly (based on 802.11 client design limitations) WDS is required. So we only tested Large Packets across WDS. As we only needed large packets when we were bridging to pass VLAN and IPSEC data that initiated at our cell site router and terminated at the building router. The topology was: Cell router - wreless - Mikrotik AP - wireless - Microtik building router. The physical Mikrotik hardware was tested by us to pass the large packets in our lab as well as the software.

I am not sure that Mikrotik allows the increase of MTU on ports or configurations that don't allow it by specification such as wireless client mode ports. Maybe it can maybe it can't?

However our model was not necessarilly to pass large packet in any configuration. Our goal was to deliver the Client a Full 1500 MTU packet size, so that if we (our transport network) layered on VLAN tagging or VPN tunneling to transport it across our network, it would be added on top (up to 1542 packet size) without compromising the customers 1500 MTU guaranteed to them.

In our application, I'm not even sure if there was a need to increase the MTU above 1500 on the Mikrotik interface configuration, as the VLAN data just got inserted above the 1500 mtu, and the VLAN configured port on the other end allowed it in. I'd have to double check. But I'll ask tech tommorrow.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] frame size and fps - Mikrotik large packets


The other day, I was trying to configure the mtu setting on a Mikrotik, and
even though the manual said it supports up to 1600-byte -- the interface
configuration won't let me set anything above 1500

Anyone? Tricks? Thoughts? Suggestions? (Tom -- you mentioned in the post
that you tested Mikrotik w/ large packets)?

-Charles

-------------------------------------------
WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
Coming to a City Near You
http://www.winog.com



-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:44 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] frame size and fps - was OT: about 70Mbps for under $
6K


I only mentioned Mikrotik as its abilty to pass large packets has been
tested.
I believe we couldn't do that with StarOS as a limitation of Wifi clients
(although not positive, as I did not investigate WDS options on StarOS which

allows the large packets and full passing bridge features.) With that
asside, I guess it would be fair to consider StarOS, Ikarus, and Mikrotik as

the same class product. I actually wanted to classify it by hardware class
such as OEM Atheros products. But technically thatdefinition would include
Alvarion.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] frame size and fps - was OT: about 70Mbps for under $
6K


Hi Tom,

Not to add another "chink" to your debate -- but it is worth noting that
Mikrotik is more of a "jack of all trades" solution (they do routing,
hotspot, etc) than a wireless solution

While they do an ok job w/ wireless, IMO, their strength is more the
convenience coming from the integration of multiple packages and its
flexibility rather than the performance of any single feature

If you're looking at purely a "wireless" solution (in this "do-it-yourself"
genre) -- you need to include Star-OS / Ikarus in your evaluation (but then,
documentation gets a bit sparse there...)

-Charles

-------------------------------------------
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com



-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 5:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] frame size and fps - was OT: about 70Mbps for under $
6K


Paul,

Although many have reported very high speeds with Mikrotik. Our live tests
in noisy environments (wether accepted as accurate or not) showed we were
not able to get the peak speeds out of Mikrotik where we could get them from

Alvarion. Our comparative tests were done with the Alvarion ver 3 firmware
(not 4 yet). The Alvarion speeds that we got were right on the numbers with
the speeds test Alvarion tech support sent us. Actually our tested speeds
were a bit higher in some some cases.  (Take note we only got accurate
speeds when we hard set modulation to optimal (picked the best one for the
situation) modulation for testing).

I do not mean this as a negative comment on Mikrotik. Our competition to
Alvarion is NOT Trango, Trango does not yet have a 20 mbps product for PtMP.
We look at our Trango as the best choice to tackle the worse noisy
environments (for us almost everywhere :-) Our competition for Alvarion is
actually Mikrotik.

Mikrotik probably has the single highest value from a feature cost
perspective. Why pay Alvarion price, when Mikrotik can do almost the same
thing at a fraction of the cost.  Mikrotik has changed this market and
forced competing vendors to look at how to be more competitive.  Mikrotik is

doing what Trango did 4 years ago to drive the price down.  (I'd argue that
Trango is still doing it also).

It will be real interesting to see how Alvarion performs side by side to
Mikrotik. The initial look show to me that Alvarion adds significant
features that make it the premium choice, possibly the leader in OFDM today,

if price not part of the consideration. However, Mikrotik's flexibilty and
price clearly will keep them a major player for many WISPs.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hendry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 3:45 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] frame size and fps - was OT: about 70Mbps for under $
6K


Are these figures in the lab? I have seen similar with a
Mikrotik/N-Streme solution.

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: 16 June 2006 19:57
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] frame size and fps - was OT: about 70Mbps for
under $ 6K

So I have more data for you Matt I just received about what firmware
4.0 delivers in terms of frame sizes and what it can mean to the
business case. Remember, this is multipoint, not PtP. All Mbps numbers
are NET
throughput:

Frame size Upstream Mbps/FPS Downstream Mbps/FPS
64 32.18/47893 40.29/59952
128 34.7/29308 43.79/36982
256 37.68/17065 45.03/20392
512 38.41/9025 45.51/10693
1024 37.02/4432 44.82/5366
1280 38.93/3743 45.99/4422
1518 36.69/2982 44.63/3627

This is a dramatic improvement, first in terms of net throughput the
numbers are huge and I am pretty sure no other PMP system can get
close to them. But
the main accomplishment is a total leveling of capacity regardless of the
frame size. This results in much higher predictability and ability to
capacity plan. This takes net throughput over 700% higher using small
64bit
frame than the previous version. Frankly it really is an exceptional
achievement that will enable operators to offer very high value services
even to large enterprise. With this version of BreezeACCESS VL an operator
could sell an 8 voice lines/6Mbps of data to 20 enterprise customers in a
single sector with a 5:1 over subscription with a voice MOS of 4.0 or
higher. And with a SOHO type service like 2 voice lines and 3Mbps of data
you could have 160 customers PER sector at a 20:1 over subscription. That
will produce some exceptional ARPU.

Patrick Leary
AVP Marketing
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 6:47 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K

Patrick Leary wrote:

Matt, to further your comments that you see WISPs providing layer 2
transort
for carriers.

We have multiple CLECs and non-CLECs buying layer 2 transport from us
now. All are used to buy alternative access from fiber providers and
therefore fixed wireless was a naturally next step. Further, almost
all indicated they would have done it sooner, but the fixed wireless
companies they approached weren't willing to offer them layer 2
transport.

How about VoIP? How many of you consider VoIP to be an important part
of your service future as a WISP? If so, how do you plan to support
since it cannot be done decently with the other popular 5GHz
solutions. That's not my opinion so much as the opinion of many larger
Trango and Motorola WISPs I have been talking to lately.



We are doing a significant amount of VoIP now. We have VoIP customers
running on top of both Trango and Canopy radios. Canopy is a
significantly better solution for VoIP since we can properly
prioritize voice with Canopy, while we cannot with Trango. We also
wholesale VoIP to other operators and help them --if they require it-- with getting their network ready to support VoIP.

If a key goal of WISPs is growing ARPU, what are WISPs plans for doing
that with whatever your current technology permits?



I believe VoIP is the number one way to grow ARPU and the fact that we
bundle VoIP is why I believe we have one of the highest ARPUs in the
industry.

-Matt

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