I'm glad that my office lost power for over an hour. I got to read your
email in full. (ISP running on generator though :)

On 8/9/06 11:56 AM, "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181"

> Oh boy, this is gonna be GREAT!!!!  (said in my best Animal House voice)
> Unlike some others here I'm gonna take this on.  Please feel free to expand
> on my thoughts as needed.
> WISPA is a political organization guys.  We work with the FCC, congress,
> state and local governments.  Eventually we'll help other countries make
> things better for their people too.
> It's important that people here, especially the business owners, understand
> how things REALLY work.  To get to that point we have to talk to each other
> about what happens on OUR watch.  Otherwise all we learn is one sided and we
> can't form reality based opinions.
> Having said that, I agree with you 100% David.  As far as you've gone......
> We own thousands of acres.  Not me, my parents though.  We get a LOT of
> money for not growing wheat every year.  Believe me, it's not a good thing
> for the community.  We buy less fuel, equipment, fertilizer, insurance etc.
> etc. etc.  Many farm towns are all but dead because they can't support the
> churches, grocery stores, clothing stores, hardware stores etc.  Wal-Mart
> hasn't helped, but mostly it's the lost of bodies that has hurt.  When the
> school district is loosing kids you know people, especially the next
> generation just aren't staying here.
> But what's a body to do?  Out here most of the ground we're being paid not
> to raise crops on is really bad ground.  It should not have ever been pulled
> from grazeland in the first place.  But there's not always been more food
> than people, so folks planted every acre they could.
> Farming used to be a good living.  Back before Jimmy Carter that is.  His
> choice to use food as a political weapon caused other countries to start
> growing a LOT of food.  And our wonderful universities and government was
> all too happy to teach them how.  So now we don't feed you AND the whole
> world.  We feed you and part of the world.
> Farmers today compete against Australia, south america, China and a lot of
> other countries.  Here we have more rules that everyone, not only the
> farmers but the suppliers of our chemicals and machinery too, have to follow
> so our costs are often driven much higher than our competitors.  But we've
> got good ground and we know how to take care of it so we can probably keep
> up that way.
> Many of those other countries subsidize their farmers or tax our incoming
> crops though.  Sometimes both.  In those cases we certainly can not compete.
> If we can't compete we go out of business.  If no one in the industry can
> compete the industry eventually shuts down.  When's the last time you saw a
> wagon wheel plant?  Or a blacksmith shop?  It does happen.  In those cases
> though, there's been something else, something better to take it's place.
> What are you going to do for food if you can't afford to grow it here?  You
> can live without your computers if someone blocks the ships coming to our
> shores.  You can survive without your TV, radio, mp3 player etc.
> Let me ask you, if there's another big war and you were on the other side,
> what's the first thing you'd do?  Me, I'd shut down America's access to the
> rest of the world.  Without America many economies would collapse, war
> materials couldn't get out, and nothing, including (especially???) food
> would get in.
> Governments know that as long as people are eating it's not likely that they
> will revolt.  When they start to starve, when the children die, bullets
> start to fly.  And NO government, even the mighty Romans, survives when the
> people are against them.  The USA spends less per capita on food than almost
> any country in the world.  If you allow too many farmers to go broke that
> won't be the case.  You'll have to buy food instead of that new car.....
> Here's where it gets really interesting.  Did you know that the farmers
> can't sell their crops themselves in most cases?  There are two or three
> exporters in the whole country.  They sell the wheat AND set the prices that
> the farmers are paid.  I can't go to, say, China, and say, "Look, you're
> paying $5 for a bushel of wheat.  I only get $3.75, how about if I sell to
> you at $4.50 and we both win?"  How would you like to have to sell your
> internet to EarthLink, AOL, or MSN?  At whatever rate they decided you
> should get?  That's much the way farming works.
> As for other crops it's not that simple.  Believe it or not, farmers aren't
> stupid.  They are often some of the sharpest most business savvy people
> you'll ever meet.  When crop prices are LOWER than they were in the 1970's
> and have been since then almost ever year we weeded out the stupid ones a
> long time ago.  IF they are in the right climate they already grow something
> else.  IF they have the right amount of water (our latest well is 2240'
> deep, $500,000 to put it in and you don't even want to know about that
> electricity bill!).  IF there is a market.  The list goes on and is very
> long.  When we can, we DO grow other crops.  Right now we have garbanzo
> beans, wheat, barley, and over half a dozen different varieties of grass
> seed.  Last year we had canola, peas and spuds too.  We would like to grow
> some corn but there's no facilities to handle it within trucking distance
> (can't truck right from the field much more than 30 minutes).
> I wish that the government would change the CRP program a little bit and
> make these guys grow fuel instead of sage brush.  All that's doing is
> creating an amazing rodent problem.  Nothing good lives out there cause
> there's no water.  But the rodents can get enough water from eating the
> plants I guess.  And the bugs, sheesh.
> It costs around $4.00 per gallon to produce biofuels today.  I'm talking at
> scale, not from left over cooking oil.  There's a plant going in here in
> town.  There are no gas taxes on it so that helps, and there are some
> subsidies.  It still costs more than other petro though.
> Nothing could be better for this country than having every community with a
> fuel production plant in or near it.  That would put some real pressure on
> the petrol market.
> You watch though, just like electricity, as soon as some alternate plants
> are just starting to come online, the price of crude will drop like a rock
> and those plants will shut down.  The the price will start to creep up
> again.
> If we're gonna pay people not to farm food crops, lets put that money into
> energy independence.  It would be great for the local economies, it would
> take funds away from our enemies, it would free us from depending on others.
> Lots of good to it.
> But, it would rock the establishment so it can never be allowed to happen.
> Not till the establishment is in a position to be at the head of it.  Just
> like broadband.  The technology had been around for a very long time.  Till
> the telco's and cable co's were ready to handle 95% of the market though, it
> wasn't there.
> Who knows though, just like the WISPs have been a ground swell of grass
> roots people and have pushed the broadband industry to heights and in
> directions that the experts completely missed, maybe there small fuel
> startups will be able to do the same.  Another $1.00 per gallon for gas and
> it'll be a wash for the little guy to compete against the petro companies.
> Like you, Dave, I sure wish that the government would keep it's nose out of
> my business.  I wish ALL governments would do that.  But that's not what
> governments do.  They think they see a bigger picture, they think they are
> smarter, or they are just greedy, whatever.
> As for the price of living in the country.  Yeah, we know there is one.  We
> pay more in taxes because there are fewer of us available to support the
> infrastructure.  We can't get chinese food.  We can't order out for pizza,
> can't get a new pair of $20 shoes without an $80 gas bill.  We can't drive
> only small cars cause not all of the roads get plowed right away.  And we
> often have to haul much more than what will fit in a small car.  Heck, when
> we want to go to Safeway and go big shopping we have to take the Suburban 45
> miles away and we'll fill the back of it to feed our family of 5 for 2 to 3
> weeks.  And that's with doing much of our regular shopping here in town.
> Try to put two parents (yeah, we're a mom and a dad in our house), three
> kids and a month's worth of food in that Yugo or mini van.  Especially if
> you get caught in a snow storm.
> We knew we'd not get cable TV.  We knew that the fire department wouldn't
> get there till the house was already burned the the ground.  We knew that a
> heart attack would be fatal because help is so far away.
> Know what else we know?  We know our kids are LESS likely to have kids out
> of wedlock.  We know that they are less likely to get hooked on drugs.  We
> know that there are no gangs out there.  We know it's safe to let our 7 year
> old daughter walk downtown for a candy bar.  Alone.  We know we can (and do)
> leave the keys in the car.  Heck, I leave my wallet in my car, unlocked.  We
> don't lock our house, don't have to.  We know that the chances of our kids
> being murdered or assaulted is much lower than in the city.  Out here,
> sexual predators usually last weeks in the community.  They don't stick
> around.
> Know what else is true about my little town?  We have MORE broadband options
> than most of you in the city have.  Usually at lower prices and higher
> speeds too.
> I don't want government money to build out my network.  I've seen what
> happens when they get their hooks into you and/or your business.  We could
> have had food stamps, free government health care etc.  All of that would
> sure have made life easier and our business could have grown faster with
> less debt.  What we've done we've not down on YOUR dime.  But my competitors
> get YOUR money.  Should they be the only ones that do?  I'd like nothing
> better than to see their funds shut off.  That's not gonna happen though,
> the closest I can do to level the playing field and stay in business is to
> get some of the money too.
> When you've got your house, retirement, college money, everything on the
> line, what are you gonna do?????
> I hope that helps explain more about what really effects decisions that get
> made here on the farm.
> Oh yeah, I spent a decade in the big city with a real job.  You can stay
> there with the crime, the filth, the disease and the threat of terrorism.
> It'll take one hell of a big carrot before I'm gonna go back to that kinda
> stress.  grin
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181                                   Equipment sales
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)                                    And I run my own wisp!
> (net meeting)
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Sovereen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 7:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces
> billtoencouragehighspeedinternetaccess in rural areas]
>> Your assumption is correct.  Using your example of wheat, if you let free
>> markets operate, then farmers who couldn't survive growing wheat would
>> stop
>> growing wheat and switch to a crop that would make them more money.  I
>> believe that all government subsidies should be eliminated and that we
>> should pay market prices for goods and services.  Government subsidies are
>> nothing more than price manipulation and welfare for businesses.  They
>> cost
>> taxpayers more money than it would if we just paid the market price for
>> products and services, because there is the added cost of government
>> oversight and dispursement of funds.
>> Dave
>> 989-837-3790 x 151
>> 989-837-3780 fax
>> www.mercury.net
>> 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI  48640
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cliff Leboeuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:20 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces
>> billtoencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas]
>>> So David,
>>> I guess it is fair for me to assume that you don't agree the the
>> government
>>> paying some NOT to grow wheat or NOT to raise pigs so that those that DO
>> can
>>> survive on a reasonable profit margin and not be flooded by over
>> production
>>> creating too much product for not enough demand...?
>>> :)
>>> On 8/9/06 8:57 AM, "David Sovereen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> Since when do the people on this list support taxation, waste, and
>>>> government subsidies?  Why should the burden of providing high-speed
>>>> Internet to people in underserved (typically rural) areas fall on the
>>>> shoulders of taxpayers?  I don't want my taxes to pay to expand your
>> network
>>>> or for Joe User to get your service.
>>>> If people want services, they should live in a city.  If they want to
>> live
>>>> in rural areas, they should do so with the understanding that services
>>>> (water, sewer, EMS, schools, cable, high-speed Internet, just about
>> anything
>>>> and everything) are harder to come by and sometimes more expensive.  No
>> one
>>>> makes people live in the country.  People choose to on their own, and
>> they
>>>> should take responsibility for the costs and/or lack of services
>> associated
>>>> with that decision.
>>>> Just my own 2 cents.
>>>> Dave
>>>> 989-837-3790 x 151
>>>> 989-837-3780 fax
>>>> www.mercury.net
>>>> 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI  48640
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Chadd Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:36 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill
>>>> toencouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas]
>>>>> IMO they need to start giving money to the end users to pay for hookup
>> and
>>>>> installation. Stop paying to expand WISP's networks and give the money
>>>> where
>>>>> it is needed, if you want a bigger network pay for it out of your own
>>>>> pocket. In IL I doubt you could drive from Chicago to St.Louis and not
>> be
>>>>> able to hook up to a WISP.
>>>>> Give money to the people who need to put up a 45ft tower to get
>>>>> access.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Chadd
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:54 PM
>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] [Fwd: Durbin introduces bill to
>>>>>> encouragehighspeedinternet access in rural areas]
>>>>>> Don't forget the 3rd great lie..."I'm from the government and I'm
>>>>>> here to help
>>>>>> you"
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>> Jeff Broadwick
>>>>>> ImageStream
>>>>>> 800-813-5123 x106
>>>>> --
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>>>>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date:
>> 8/7/2006
>>>>> -- 
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