inline... >-----Original Message----- >From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:22 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > >Until, the IRS decides that they can not be considered a contractor, because >they do not do work for other people, and are not solely in control of how a >job gets done. >To do it legal, its pretty important that installer's company becomes >Incorporated or LLC. Once they do that, its hard to keep control of what they >do, and you loose benefits of Employing. >Benefits of employing, does that exist ? :-) > >I guess the truth is, can you find installers willing to give up benefits of >being an employee, and still be available when you need them like an employee?
>>> If you pay them well and give them enough work so they don't starve.... John > >Tom DeReggi >RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rick Smith > To: 'WISPA General List' > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:27 PM > Subject: RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > > > the answer is hire a company to do installations for you. if your employee > just happens to own that company, well, oh well… > > > > It’s all invoices. Pay them as normal, and you don’t need to worry about > taxes, etc. Your employee (or sub’d company J…) does that on their own. > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:28 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > > > > Where the problems come in are, that paying someone peice rate does NOT > NEGATE the requirement to pay overtime for Employees. > > Nor does it Negate the IRS's definition of what an EMployee is and a > contractor is. > > > > You have to restrict employees to work less than 40 hours or prepair to pay > time and a half for your peice rate. If an employee works 60 hours, and > completes three installs at in that week, at a peice rate of $100 each you > would pay the employee..... > > > > $300 / 60 hours = $5 per hour. Overtime (20 hours) would be paid on $100 of > the pay. Addtional over time pay (half time) would be $50. > > Total paycheck would be $350. > > > > If it took them 60 hours to just get two installs done, they would be less > than the minimum wage. > > > > So there are two requirements.... > > 1) You must have a minimum pay, calcuated on the total number of hours that > THEY record working. > > 2) Must figure out someones average hourly rate on a weekly basis. This > complicates the accounting duties, and forces the account to custom pay each > employee each month. > > > > Two problems that can occur are... > > > > What if you want to pay an employee well, because they are really doing a > good job, and then one week they decide to go really slow? You end up paying > someone a huge amount of overtime unexpectedly! > > > > What we learned was that a employee's record of stated hours worked was > accurate. So paying peice rate does NOT NEGATE the need of the management to > record and manage the hours worked by an employee. We learned, that an > Employer is NOT responsible for their productivity the employer is. So if > they go to the movies all day without you knowing it, and work late to get > the job done, you still owe them the overtime, regardless of what flat peice > rate you negotiated. > > > > These are some of the reasons that we chose to put employees on Salary > instead of Piece rate. We live in a sue happy county. We just plan on > everyone taking way to long for an install, and put very low expectations on > what they are expected to accomplish, and we save on management and > accounting salaries. If they get done early, we have them do other things. > I won't talk about what happens if they don't get their work done, thats > handled on a case by case basis. So we chose salary for ease. IF they > consistently do well, they get a higher salary and stock options. It creates > a team effort, not a what do I get mentality. > > > > I don't know if that is the right decission or not, it really takes our guys > a long time to get things done. I often consider whether I should migrate > back to peice rate. > > > > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Pete Davis > > To: WISPA General List > > Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:10 AM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > > > > According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by the > hour or for piece work (by the job) > > from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm > > The Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise > exempt to pay these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour > as of September 1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum > wage of not less than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar > days of employment with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee > to hire someone at the youth minimum wage. > > Employers may pay employees on a piece‑rate basis, as long as they receive > at least the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers > of tipped employees (i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more > than $30 a month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but > employers must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a > tip credit. They must also meet certain other conditions. > > I suppose that if these guys manage to spend over 20 (10 hrs each) hrs on > every install for the pay period, then I would have to adjust their pay to > bring them up to minimum wage. That hasn't been a problem. They average about > 3 hrs/install including drive time. This is about twice as fast as installs > got done back when they were paid hourly. This is a win/win/win solution as I > see it. The employees like the method for making extra money. The customers > like the techs getting in and out in a reasonable time. I like getting 2 or 3 > installs/day vs 1/day like we got back when techs got paid per hour. > > We treat their install pay just like regular income. We withhold the > withholdings, deal with the social security, etc. > > Lincoln Welder mfg company in Ohio pays EVERY employee piece-wage only. > You might get $4/ea to wind motors, $2/ea to install a switch, $7/ea to screw > wheels on, $1.50 to inspect parts, etc. > They have withholdings, pay social security, etc. They even clock in/out, > to insure to OSHA that no employee is working more than 120 hrs/week but this > method has been in place for years and works very well. The employees love it > and the unions hate it. It insures that the new guy in training gets up to > speed in a reasonable time or washes out. The guy who has been there for 10 > years can handle 10 $4 units/hr can make decent money. > > > Pete Davis > NoDial.net > > > Scott Reed wrote: > > You might want to check with your accountant. I doubt the IRS is going to > let you "contract" with people you also employ. You may be liable for FICA, > etc. for all the installs they have done. > > Scott Reed > Owner > NewWays > Wireless Networking > Network Design, Installation and Administration > www.nwwnet.net > > > ---------- Original Message ----------- > From: Pete Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List <[email protected]> > Sent: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:40:09 -0500 > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations > > > We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs > usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my techs > to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and I am an owner. > > > > They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc and > if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1 or 2 /day > for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get $100/install. We > provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all consumables (staples, > caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That keeps them from usually > turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive for completing installs in a > timely manner (2 hr install = $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from > a faulty/sloppy install in the first 30 days result in the installer techs > going on site to fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it > done right the first time around. > > > > We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who will > occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they are an > existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling them a > custom network/phone system/security system/audio system anyway. We will > usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and minimal technical > support. They will bring us the contract/customer worksheet for our files, > and we don't even have to go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the > setup, we often let the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and > put in as many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just > start picking up the monthly billing. > > > > Those are good relationships to have. > > > > Pete Davis > > NoDial.net > > > > chris cooper wrote: > > > > > > Im sure this has been covered before….. > > > > Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a positive > experience, how much do you pay a contractor? > > > > Thanks > > Chris > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: > 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006 > ------- End of Original Message ------- > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: > 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006 > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006 > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006 > -- WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
