Scriv and contributers to thread,

I think you are off base on your replies to Patrick. Patrick made fair points. He made a generalized comment based, and did not make specific accusation to specific individual. I am personaly aware of many WISPs and vendors that bend the rules both intentially and unintentionally. If there is on individual that can point fingers without risk of creating a double standard, its Patrick. Alvarion is one of the few Manufacturers that clearly follow the rules. One of the reasons I like Alvarion product, is that I know that if I use it, I don't have to think about the rules anymore, as they got it taken care of for me. As WISPs we have been fighting for more leanient rules, but as the rules become more leanient, they become more confusing to understand and confirm compliance. How many cards are spec'd at +/- 3db? How many WISPs plug in a Spectrum analyzer after installing a base station to confirm proper operation of an AP sector? The FCC has trusted us to police ourselves to stay legal. Sometimes WISPs do the things they need to do, because they need to do it, but that does not make it legal. Two of the biggest examples are StarOS and Mikrotik, and OEM gear. This gear is great flexible gear, that WISPs have lobbied hard for, and can't ignore. But when is someone going to take the initiative to Legally certify combinations of the gear? I can barely keep all the power stuff straight, and I'm a 6 year veteran. How is the average newbie going to keep it straight? With added flexibilty, it created the need for added caution and attention. In general WISPA has promoted compliance and legality, but that does not mean everyone follows the direction, not that the industry won't slide off path, if we forget to keep on top of compliance. I have to agree in full with Patrick. Maybe compliance may not happen as fast as technology and innovation, but at minimum we must be working in the direction of compliance.

As mentioned by one of you, its not only WISPs, its also Vendors. But protections were already in place to enforce vendor compliance. Self-enforcing WISP compliance, is what responsibility we were given.

I like to look at an analagee the FCC uses. For every complaint the FCC gets, they predict their are like 5000 others with the same problem that didn't. Or for every vote they get, they assume 5000 agree that didn;t vote. Something to that nature. So maybe the same is inferred with compliance? For every person that was caught, how many went uncaught?

I'm in no way promoting a higher level of inforcement/policing from the FCC, but Its mandatory that we alway challenge ourselves and peers to be compliant the best we can.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV white spaces


Patrick, what is Alvarion doing as a corporation to police the majority of BWIA vendors who now pollute our industry with uncertified gear? These are your peers. Do you like being stereotyped with them?

Your stereotyping of WISP operators as being predominantly illegal and the source of the problem is not accurate or fair and I want it to stop. The majority of the WISPs out there are trying to do right. It is the vendors who are the real problem. The majority of vendors ignore the law. The last gear purchase I made was for an Alvarion B100 backhaul link which is due in here today. It is certified but now I wonder if buying from a vendor who stereotypes the industry is a good idea. Maybe I made a mistake buying from your company?

By the way, the slam about 4.9 GHz is completely erroneous and you need to apologize. The vast majority of WISPs stay the hell away from 4.9 and other bands which we are not allowed in. You need to watch your tack on this public list. Being a paid vendor member does not give you the right to sling mud or FUD.
Scriv


Patrick Leary wrote:

I understand and agree, but that's all the more reason why WISPs need to
police themselves because the public impression and liabilities are
there just as well.

Sometimes I wonder if the FCC is not content to let WISPs sort of stay
partially self-destructing. It gives them and the major operators an ace
in the hole against WISPs if and when they need it.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV white spaces

Yeah, for sure.

However, the FCC must take some credit for that problem Patrick.  How
many times have you been told that operator a has turned in operator b for an

illegal network and never heard a peep out of the FCC?

laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181                                   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
42846865 (icq)                                    And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] TV white spaces


I hope it does go UL, but I have also heard some recent rumblings that
the FCC is concerned with what seems like a widespread deterioration of
WISPs following the rules. The phrase I recall is something along the
lines of "Damn it, these things are not guidelines."

From my view it is true. I see it in conversations that go beyond the
usual, "if you just stay within the power no one cares" to now where
people seem to via the STA process as a round-about tool to get access
to and use spectrum that does not commercially exist.

Letting loose the same level of abuse in the TV bands is something that
will cause real problems for the FCC should broadcasters be affected.

The WISP industry must do a better job of policing itself and
discouraging the slippery slope.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV white spaces

Steve,

I appreciate your insight into the possibility that license-exempt white

space use might actually materialize. I very much hope that it does.

jack


Steve Stroh wrote:

Jack:

Consider...

To the television broadcasters, WISPs using this spectrum in a "we'll



stay out of the way of any television broadcasting activity" manner

is

the lesser of several other evils; television broadcasting has  been
steadily losing ground now; first 800 MHz was carved out of  Channels
70-83, and now the 700 MHz bands are being carved out of  Channels
52-69. The trend is clear, and while it's one thing for  powerful
terrestrial broadcasting to "share" spectrum with low-power
license-exempt usage, it's quite another for communications use to do



the same. If the broadcasters play things right (and it appears they
are "bending" towards white space license-exempt usage, but very much



on THEIR terms...) the license-exempt usage of television white space



may serve to "pollute" the remaining television broadcast spectrum
sufficiently to prevent future reallocation (for at least another
decade or so).

Intel, Microsoft, Cisco are some of the names being bandied about as
advocates for license-exempt use of white space television broadcast
spectrum.


Thanks,

Steve



On Jan 24, 2007, at Jan 24  09:21 AM, Jack Unger wrote:


Likelihood of unlicensed???

My guess is that the established communications carriers and the
broadcasters will fight the concept of license-free use of this
space. I expect it will come down to who lobbies Congress most
effectively.

--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


---

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Writing about BWIA again! - www.bwianews.com







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