I've seen you on the MOTO list in the past :)
Your a real trooper.
Wish there were some unemployed Patrick Leary clones around.
WOW, could you imaging what a Patrick Leary clone could do for your
business.
Yikes, talk about agressive...
Patrick Leary wrote:
Correct. I did not post it to the Moto list, though that is where the
questions originated.
Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
It was forwarded to the general wisp list.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
How did you get the thread then?
Lonnie
On 3/11/07, Marlon K. Schafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I"m not on that list.
sorry,
marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
Could you forward along the Motorola thread as well for comparison?
Thanks.
Patrick
Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
I found this thread interesting.
Enjoy,
marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09,
2007
5:51
PM
Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions
about
Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer
them
>from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get
some
use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough.
Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c:
760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Are modifications to the APs FCC legal?
No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e
used.
Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices
(God
forbid!)
How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would
a SA
show the channel width to be?
Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE
will
adjust automatically.
What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation
without
reflector, with?
The CPE with VL comes with an integrated antenna which enables on
the
VL
to reach about 7 miles LOS at full capacity (32mbps net ftp),
16mbps at
5
miles, 29mbps at 2 miles and 32mbps at 1 mile. The answer BTW to
your
Canopy question can be found on their doc CNPY-ADV-SUBMODFCT
brochure
produced in 2006. On that doc it says the range of the 5.7 w/o
reflector
is 14mbps to 1 mile and 7mbps to 2 miles. Beyond that you must have
a
reflector. With the reflect you get 14mbps to 5 miles and 7mbps to
10
miles.
Are there any tools or utilities that Motorola or other offers to
assist
in the network development of Canopy products?
There are things like link calculators, channel plan docs, and
plenty
of
opportunity for direct consultation.
Can two SMs on the same AP talk to each other without special
routing?
In VL it could be enabled via the many VLAN capabilities, which
include
QinQ VLAN support, but VL intentionally does not allow this out of
the
box
(it is something the operator, i.e. you, should have control over.)
Explain how the Advantage 14MB/s (or 20MB/s) works, how is that
allocated, how true are those figures? Is the allocation dynamic?
Can
you mix breeds of SM on the AP?
VL uses OFDM, which gives it some NLOS abilities (not so much with
trees,
but it also helps a bit there). The OFDM we uses adaptive modulates
(dynamic) to maintain the best connection. Each mod level down is a
lower
rate. You can also set the radio to fix on a modulation level if
you
wish.
All VL CPE versions work seamlessly together in any sector.
Can an SM access the AP it's on for management?
In VL the operator can assign multiple stations for management
access.
Is there a feature to disable broadcast traffic?
Yes, VL has a "broadcast rate limiting" feature which can be set
per
subscriber. It can also send you a trap if any set station nears
its
limit.
Why can't the APs use horizontal polarization? Doesn't this limit
the
radio's ability to co-locate?
The CPEs now have an option (in the rev E version hardware) to be
either
H or V pol mounted. The AUs can be mounted either way (by way of
antenna
choice).
Why is the latency so high for the APs (5-7ms)?
N/A, but looking in terms of a specific application, the delay
with
the
optional "WLP" (wireless link prioritization feature) feature is
stable
at
4 or less ms.
What is the maximum PPS per AP?
Up to about 60000 downstream and 48000 upstream.
Are there any tools to prevent or reduce the impact from an
end-user
launching a DoS attack?
Yes, the broadcast rate limiting feature was designed specifically
because of this threat.
How do the APs handle VoIP traffic? Is there anything that can
assist
this?
Better, literally, than any other AP in unlicensed, with up 288
CONCURRENT VoIP calls per AP (we call them AUs) with a MOS of
better
than
4.0. With the WLP feature implemented, MOS is typically over 4.1
and
many
tests show over 4.4. (I have some great VoIP graphs). We can also
run
tons
of concurrent data. The graphs show this too.
What is a realistic number of concurrent VoIP sessions an AP can
handle?
VL is the only product that can literally and dynamically
prioritize
VoIP
over the entire pipe and across the entire sector (versus just
dedicating
a partition that must be allocated whether used or not). At the
same
time,
VL has a starvation prevention mechanism to prevent starvation of
low
priority traffic.
Are there any known problems with over-polling an AP with SNMP?
We do not use polling. In our view it is less efficient than our
implementation.
Are the SMs SNMP capable, or only the data from a SM through the
AP?
Yes, if set to be one of the management consoles.
What improvements over the current APs does Motorola hope to
achieve
in
the next generation?
VL was launched in 2002. Then it only netted about 12mbps. It now
nets
32mbps. Many features have been added, such as 4th gen CIR/MIR,
broadcast
rate limiting, VoIP from 40 calls per sector to 288, pps from about
3,000
to what I noted above, etc., etc. This has always been done with
backward
compatibility. (I can't yet name specific new features as v4.0 and
rev
E
are both already new.)
Since Canopy's inception has there been an upgrade to the AP that
was
not backwards compatible with existing SMs?
Never. VL has always supported backward compatibility.
Is a Lite SM the same hardware as a regular SM?
We have no such animal. We have real VL CPE (rev E 3mbps version)
for
only $285/ea (all inclusive) under the AlvarionCOMNET program
(that's
with
a 25/CPE per quarter commitment).
Can lite SMs be purchased individually?
All CPE can be bought individually or in packs.
What is the benefit to using a SM other than the lite?
N/A
Can a non-advantage AP be software upgraded to Advantage?
N/A. But we do offer a limited association AU (designed for rural
markets). It can be upgraded to a full AU.
What is the voltage pin out on Canopy equipment for PoE, is
positive
on
pins 7 and 8 or 4 and 5?
I'm not an engineer (or sales VP either actually), but I believe
it is
54vDC. Off hand I'm not sure which pin, but I can found out if you
really
want to know.
What voltage range can the Canopy accept? (Min, Max)
VL can be powered with -48vDC or AC (the IDU side - indoor unit -
ranges
from 85-265 vAC with 50-60 Hz).
How does GPS sync work?
VL does not need sync in our view. Our channels do not bleed near
the
extent of certain other brands (as per a large such user tells me).
We
also have very high capacity so we do not need the kind of re-use
some
require on the same tower and planning between cells is fairly
straight
forward. We also use higher end antennas (MTI) on both ends and
with
some
FCC-legal 3rd party antenna options on the AU side. We also use
dynamic
ATPC so our radios do not talk beyond their connections.
What benefits does the CMM offer over the syncpipe? Is the
satellite
management necessary?
N/A
What level of tolerance is acceptable with GPS sync? Can the GPS
sync
cable length add delay?
N/A
How many GPS units are required for a network? Can the GPS data
be
sent
via the wireless to other towers?
N/A
If my network is GPS synced, and my competitor's network is GPS
synced,
are they in harmony or do we have to coordinate our efforts on GPS
sync
specific settings to reduce interference?
N/A
How do the APs handle interference? What methods to they use?
VLs are hugely configurable, but some of the key things are use of
smaller channels, tighter antennas (10 degrees on the CPE). OFDM's
adaptively sliding modulations, adjustments to various parameters,
etc.
Is there a RF receive threshold that can be set? How fine is the
adjustment of this setting? Does it exist on both the AP and SM
or
just
one?
20 - 4,032 byes (both ends) with a default of 60 for SUs and 4032
for
AUs.
What is the process of changing a channel on the AP? How do the
SMs
know the new channel to change to?
Simple, a few keystokes. SU's change automatically.
Are there broadcast commands that can be sent to all SMs on an
particular AP? Or all SMs on the network?
Yes and yes.
Does the Canopy support ARQ?
Yes, VL does ARQ.
Explain what Transmit Frame Spreading is, what are the pros and
cons?
N/A
Explain the 1x and 2x options, what are the pros and cons?
N/A
Where are the SMs authentication information (MAC, etc.) stored
at?
AP
level? If an AP fails, what is involved with replacing that AP
and
restoring the SMs? Are there any backup utilities to assist?
MAC table. If an AU fails and the "best AU" setting is enabled the
CPEs
will automatically re-associate to the next best AU. All CPE and
AUs
have
a shadow flash and different firmware can be stored on each flash,
this
is
invaluable if for some reason an upgrade fails in process. We are
the
only
ones with shadow flash (that I know of). AUs can also be deployed
stand
alone or as part of a chassis system with blades. In the chassis
configuration supports redundant power and you can swap IDUs should
an
IDU
fail.
Explain how canopy (not db) RSSI value is calculated?
We do not do RSSI, we do SNR and it is hardcoded, but the 10 SNR
LEDs
on
the CPE directly correspond to a specific SNR number.
What exactly is the definition of Jitter? Explain how jitter is
calculated?
Jitter is just not something that we have to deal with in VL
except
with
respect to VoIP and other real time sensitive apps. Our VoIP jitter
using
WLP is under 3ms. A good definition though can be found via this
link:
http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci213534,00.
html.
Discussion of jitter is not in the manual and I have never heard it
discussed among VL users in any forums. I believe it is a non-issue
on
the
data side.
Explain how the test link function works, why is it disruptive to
the
entire AP?
N/A
What must be changed from default values on an SM to begin the
survey
process?
N/A. Nothing, on AU or SU end. Once the survey is over the system
will
revert to its previous configuration.
What is the suggested method of validating a new installation -
what
parameters should be measured?
Again, I am not an engineer, but you'd certainly want to validate
the
quality of the link relative to the pre-installed expectation, so
you
really just need to pass traffic via your preferred test method
(chariot,
etc.). If the quality is not as expected, then you delve into
looking
at
the myriad of counters. Of course, if you are tagging for VLANs you
need
to validate, as you would anytime you affect any specific setting.
Beyond
that, I'd defer to my engineers.
How often is firmware updated? What is the method of upgrading
firmware?
Periodically when we can come up some major new thing or per
market
request. In addition, if needed we provide timely bug fixes to
issues
found by customers after we can repeat and fix. All upgrades are
just a
few key strokes and can be down network wide, sector wide or
specific
set
of SUs, all with a few keystrokes. Of course, as mentioned before
we
have
shadow flash.
How long is the product's warranty, when does that warranty begin,
how
is this proven?
One year, usually from the date it ships from our warehouse, but
in
recognition of the channel reality, we also have a grace period
(flexible).
How is the RMA process handled? What is the return time? Whom do
I
RMA
to?
RMAs are processed directly. One VAR is able to process his own I
think.
It is initiated by online opening of a trouble ticket. It is
generally
a
two-stage process (unless we know the user is highly advanced,
where
the
1st stage is bypassed). Once the ticket is placed we call back and
talk
through the issue. We have found in most cases the unit is fine,
but
the
operator had limited knowledge. Should it be determined a return is
required, we process it using a credit card number to hold as we
ship
the
new unit before we receive the old unit. Since replacements come
from
stock, exact time span depends on inventory actually, but most
products
are commonly kept in inventory.
If the Prizm is management software necessary for several
functions,
why
is there a charge for it?
Our BreezeCONFIG comes with the units and (I'm told) does the
things
that
some brands force payment for, as does other advanced tools. By the
way
AES is also standard and is hardware embedded so there is no major
performance sacrifice to implement it.
If the Prizm software crashes, do SMs lose their license for the
duration of the outage?
N/A
Can the Prizm software only allocate licenses on certain APs with
licenses?
N/A
Why are floating licenses sold instead of just unlocking the
unit's
full
capabilities?
N/A
What is real-world throughput on a lite 2mb/s floating license? Is
that
aggregate? Can that burst higher?
In our CPE, a 3mbps CPE will (all number here in ftp net) do 3mbps
down/2mbps up, a 6mbps CPE will do 6mbps down/4 up and the 54 is
wide
open
to 32mbps should the link budget allow it.
What is the BAM?
Our "bandwidth allocation module" is not a separate thing. Our MIR
and
CIR is in the firmware and does not coast extra, it is also dynamic
and
intelligent.
When is the WiMax equipment schedule to be delivered?
Which band? We have been shipping some bands since 2004. Maravedis
(and
no, we don't pay them to say it) says in terms of real WiMAX
deployments
we have 65% market share. On Feb 14 Motorola said it had 4 WiMAX
signed
contracts and 23 trials. We have 140 commercial deployments and
over
200
other trials as of the end of 2006. The delivery time for UL WiMAX
is
still not firm, due to complex issues (UL WiMAX may get hosed by
other
UL
until the mechanism being developed in the IEEE 802.16h task group
can
be
ratified and implemented. We chair this TG. Also, the UL WiMAX
profile
that was developed by the WiMAX Forum is ONLY for 5.725-5.850 GHz,
not
5.3
or 5.4. That's a problem. Also the profile is only 802.16d and not
802.16e
and that's a bigger problem since the entire weight of the WiMAX
ecosystem
is being crafted around 16e. So there are things to sort out. I can
explain further. We are charter members of the WiMAX Forum and we
are
number two in executive rank there (under Intel).
Will the current SMs be compatible with the new WiMax stuff? How
will
this be possible?
When it finally happens, they will not be able to connect to the
same
sectors. Don't believe anyone that says they will.unless they
remind
you
it also means a truck roll, which is something all can say. I'm
from
Missouri on this one and we know WiMAX best (not a boast, just a
fact
of
the market).
Can Advantage APs be software/hardware upgraded to the future
WiMax?
No.
What are the main 5.7GHz types of SMs?
5700, 5750, 5760
3 meg/1 MAC, 6meg/full bridge. 54meg/full bridge - all with
integrated
antennas (currently 21dBi MTI panel). We also have an "E" model
with an
N-type connector for support of an external antenna; these are all
54meg
full bridges. The hardware rev E version, beginning to ship now
(and
yes,
they live with the others) has a slightly wider antenna (20dBi I
think)
and support H or V pol mounting.
Can a 5700 SM be software upgraded to a 5750 SM?
N/A
Do you have any Canopy end-users I can contact telephonically to
discuss
the advantages of Canopy over Trango?
Any day. If you want I can make e-mail intros, and I'm talking
about
users who have done both or might even be large Canopy users now.
What other third party products can you tell me about?
VL does not need things like Stingers (very nicely done though by
Chuck's
people at Beehive) or the Cyclone by the Last Mile guys (nice too).
The
VL
already does the things natively (i.e. the line did not have
"holes"
that
3rd parties had to fill).
Does Canopy support OFDM?
VL is the market's first UL PMP OFDM product, originally launched
in
2002. It remains the most deployed in the world among UL OFDM
products.
Is there a way to force the SM to stay at a certain power level?
We use ATPC (Moto does enable forced TPC). ATPC an also be
disabled on
ours (though you rarely would).
Does the SM and AP's handle PPPoE traffic?
We can enable or disable. From the manual: The PPPoE Broadcast
Override
Filter option enables or disables the broadcasting of PPPoE (Point
to
Point Protocol over Ethernet) messages. Even if according to the
selected
option in the Filter Options parameter, broadcast messages should
be
filtered, PPPoE broadcasts are transmitted if this parameter is set
to
Enable. We have the following options: Disable - PPPoE Broadcast
messages
are filtered or transmitted according to the general filtering
criteria
in
the Filter Options parameter. OR: Enable - PPPoE Broadcast messages
are
transmitted regardless of the selected value of the Filter Options
parameter.
Do the SM and AP allow for firmware to be downgraded if necessary?
Yes.
Does Canopy have any plans to implement MPLS?
Not yet. We do pass jumbo frame sizes (for some reason I think
this is
important with MPLS?)
How can we monitor the SNR (Live readout of noise level)?
By physically looking at the LEDs or via telnet or SNMP.
Are there any utility's or built in tools that the AP or SM have
for
troubleshooting?
BreezeCONFIG has exhaustive trouble shooting means. New users from
other
brands are usually blown away (again, you can talk to some)
Do the SM and AP have a log that we can see information about
interfaces
and traffic?
There's a question I do not know the answer to, but I can find
out.
Obviously not like a packet shaper though.
Is the throughput at the SM level effected by the RSSI value?
This is true of all wireless products - it is not a brand question
and
the answer is "Yes."
Is the throughput at the SM level effected by distance?
Same as above.
Yea, that's it for now! (:
Whew, that took a while. But it was a good exercise for
me
anyway. I'm happy to say I could answer most without looking at the
manual. Not bad for a non-tech.
Regards,
Patrick
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