Hi WiSPs, I think what is going on is one's dedication to thier customers (subscribers) and one's tremendous responsbility of running a large network. The juxtiposition of rural and urbane is also a factor. I will use me as an example. I come from very humble rural background - think Andy Griffith and Mayberry. Personal service, intimate relationships, and other customs learned in a rural environment. When I moved to the Silicon Valley/San Francisco what a surprise! I actually had to make an appointment see someone! And I had to learn how to handle over 100 large semiconductor customers at one time, with complex contracts, huge power quality issues (IEEE1159) and interaction with government agencies. My goodness was I naive. Thank goodness I had my education (MBA, BA, blah blah). But I still had my rural leanings which helped me with making human relationships with my giant customers. But I came to rely on my urbane network engineers to help me run a big system. Thank goodness they were around.
I think that is what's going on. A balance of dedicated service to our customers verus running a complex network. Mother Nature solve this by enclosing a complex system in the human body, the cell, the mithochondrian, the nucleus. Felix MBA/BA-Bioscience 2 years towards MSEE IEEE Associate Member ARRL Member (but not a Ham yet) WiMax trained WiSP system background Power Distribution Background Reader of Ralph Waldo Emerson --- Brad Belton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All, > > I really don't think Travis is trying to insult > anyone, but simply stating > the facts. > > Everyone here that has scaled to any level > understands the complexities of a > network and the business are compounded as it grows. > > Nothing against Marlon, but his argument of > comparing multiple upstream > providers in the same breath as servicing a client > on another's wireless > network is pretty ridiculous. > > > Best, > > > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Ty Carter <Lightwave Communications> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:54 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: RE: [WISPA] WISP Peering > > Travis: > > I think you are way out of line here... Just because > your network has > "x" number of clients does not mean that other > entities that have less > than you are not as capable to run a "large > network". > > I will tell you; here and now, I come from a > background of having > thousands of users on my network and the little guys > are just as > important, if not more important to talk to because > of the reason they > are willing to talk the issue through and not shove > SLA's. > > People that take your attitude and continually shove > SLA's in a > providers face often, at least in my case, take a > back seat because what > we as a service provider had a window of time to fix > for them what could > easily be fixed immediately; but because the little > guy was willing to > call and discuss the issue and was willing to work > with me, this put me > as a service provider in a better position to > isolate the problem and > bring it to a resolution. So what if my SLA window > was missed by a few > minutes; a little credit on the account for the > inconvience is all they > (Mr. SLA) were looking for anyway. > > So please don't insult the smaller provider with > that type of attitude > that you are or companies of size are more capable > of running a larger > network. The principals are all the same in this > type of arrangement > just the scale is larger. > > BTW...I'm not in any way invalidating the value of > an SLA... as a mater > a fact I very much advocate having them; but a > little reality check is > from time to time appropriate. > > Ty Carter > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Travis Johnson > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:28 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering > > Marlon, > > When you hit 3,000 subs give me a call. I'd love to > chat with you then. > Until then, you really don't have a clue what it > takes to run a large > network. > > Travis > Microserv > > Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > > Oh brother. Now you're just being obstinate > Travis. > > > > I honestly thought you were smart enough to > substitute the appropriate > > > level technician for "some guys on cell phone". > > > > What you just said is that most (all????) of your > peers, including > > your OWN techs, aren't as smart or as capable of > running their own > > networks as the boys from Level3. > > > > Guess which part of my dialup network is usually > the culprit when > > something goes down? Not my "some guy on a cell > phone" gear. It's > > usually L3! 2 or 3 to one over the last couple of > years. > > marlon > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis > Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 9:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering > > > > > >> I'm calling Qwest, AT&T or Level3. Places that > have senior level BGP > >> techs on staff 24x7. With a full SLA in place for > outages. Not "some > >> guys cell phone". > >> > >> Travis > >> Microserv > >> > >> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > >>> Really? um, exactly WHO do you call when your > upstream goes down? > >>> > >>> As ours did with a major fiber cut a couple of > weeks ago? > >>> > >>> We're ALREADY, ALWAYS dependant on others. > >>> > >>> Teamwork! > >>> marlon > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis > Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > >>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 7:11 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering > >>> > >>> > >>>> Except in Marlon's case that user will NEVER be > on your own > >>>> network. Roaming is the exception not the norm > with cell companies. > >>>> > >>>> Personally I think a better solution (if you > absolutely don't want > >>>> to just put up your own towers) is to just > refer the customer to > >>>> the other provider and hope they do the same in > the future. > >>>> Honestly, in Marlon's model, you aren't any > different than just > >>>> reselling DSL or Cable service. You don't have > control of the > >>>> network and you don't have control of the > user's radio and/or > >>>> router. And calling the other WISP's cell phone > when a customer is > >>>> down does NOT scale... especially to the levels > Marlon is hoping to > > >>>> be at one day. > >>>> > >>>> Travis > >>>> Microserv > >>>> > >>>> Mike Hammett wrote: > >>>>> Roaming is the exact same thing as Marlon > does, which is what > >>>>> we're talking about. You collect the revenues > from the user, but > >>>>> the user is on someone else's equipment. You > pay the other > >>>>> network for the use of it. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- > >>>>> Mike Hammett > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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