Mike,
What Marlon said IS NOT OPINION. The only way you can be legal is to
certify a system as a whole. You might want to take a look at the ADI
link I posted and maybe this will help you understand what is required
to become certified. You must have all the components certified together.
Is it that I keep misunderstanding what you are trying to say? But I
feel like this has been discussed before in no uncertain terms.
Regards,
Dawn DiPietro
Mike Hammett wrote:
So you're saying (in your opinion, not necessarily any bearing on what
the FCC actually requires) when we have certified SBCs, we'd be able
to go that route? Those that are running a certified radio with no
amp (who uses that garbage anymore) into an antenna with equal or
lower gain on a PC based system run a good chance of being legal?
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlon K. Schafer"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
It works like this Doug.
A radio card is an intentional radiator. Under part 15 rules it can
only be sold as a part of a certified system. That means if you put
the radio card in a computer and it's designed to be used in a
computer either with it's own built in antenna or the antenna build
into the computer that's ok. As long as it's CERTIFIED that way.
If you take that same card, hook a pigtail to it and put an amp on
it. You are out of compliance. If you put an antenna larger than the
one certified, you are out of compliance. If you put a different
type of antenna than it was certified with (yagi to grid or panel to
omni etc.) you are out of compliance.
The thing that's screwing us all up with MT, StarOS and others like
that is that they don't have ANY certified systems available to us.
And, if you look on LEGAL computer boards, even though they are
UN-intentional radiators, they will have an FCC certification on
them. Many of the war board type devices don't have that FCC logo on
them.
Yes the rule is silly. Yes it's widely ignored, even by the FCC.
No, uncertified systems don't seem to be a problem in the real world.
However, do YOU want to take a chance on having YOUR customers go
dark because you want to ignore the rules? Do you really want to
give your competition that much ammunition against you?
I have the contacts, forms to fill out etc. just waiting for me to
get the time to take this issue on as part of the FCC committee's
job. We have basically no FCC committee though. The principal
membership doesn't seem to be all that interested in anything other
than whining about the work that other people do. No one wants to
step up and take on the hard issues.
When I get done with the CALEA work (that's costing me 2 to 4 hours
per DAY and others are working harder than I am!!!!) I'll write up a
petition to get this certified system rule changed. Ideally I'd like
to get a real pro installer mechanism in place so that joe q public
still has to buy certified systems, but we could just buy certified
components.
Or, if anyone would like to take this issue on, I've got a bit of a
road map and some basic language worked out already :-).
In the mean time, run an honest legal business as much as you
possibly can.
laters,
marlon
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Ratcliffe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] MT Babble
But the base product, the "computer" does not start life as an
intentional
radiator. So at what point does a FCC certified computer become an
intentional radiator as a whole?
When you add a wireless card? That would land Dell, HP and Compaq
in a load
of trouble. But alas, is a FCC certified Netgear card, any
different than
an FCC certified Ubiquiti card when used with the certified antennas?
I'm NOT talking about marketing these as products as a vendor, I'm
talking
about USING these computers, with wireless cards installed in them
after the
sale.
I don't see how page 78 and on reference a computer becoming an
intentional
radiator? At the beginning of the day, you have a motherboard and
power
supply, which become a "Personal Computer". At the end of the day,
you add
a wireless card and antenna which makes it what then?
Calling a Cisco Aironet a PC or vice versa doesn't make sense. Cisco
Aironet=Intentional Radiator, PC=Unintentional Radiator.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 7:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT Babble
Sam,
Since some here feel I have no credibility because I no longer run a
WISP I will let you decide from this information provided.
Starting on page 78 of the following link should explain why the
wireless devices in question cannot be certified as computers.
http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/part15/part15-2-16-06.pdf
Regards,
Dawn DiPietro
Sam Tetherow wrote:
I think the question that really hasn't been answered is if a RB can
be certified class B and then use a certified radio/antenna combo as
is allowed with a PC/laptop.
And you are right that then FCC makes the rules. What is not clear is
that Dawn's (and others) position that the component rules can not
apply to an RB or other SBC. The only people that can clarify this is
the FCC.
As for FCC certification in general, I think there are two major
factors that come into play with uncertified gear. There are several
that deployed the equipment under the false impression that it was
legal because they complied with the EIRP rules (and many still
persist in this belief).
The other is the simple fact that no one has been fined, to my
knowledge, for using uncertified gear. There have been instances of
people that have been fined for using over EIRP and unauthorized use
of licensed bands.
If the FCC has not fined for the behavior yet and has made unofficial
statements to the effect that they are more worried about EIRP and
477, it comes as no surprise that people will not follow the law. As
you pointed out most people regularly break the speed limit, which is
a law with an associated fine but they continue to do so because the
fine is not large enough or incurred often enough to make it an
effective deterrent.
Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless
Matt Liotta wrote:
This has become a ridiculous thread. Dawn's customer experience is
irrelevant in this case. Plenty of operators who have lots of
customers (including me) understand and agree with the position
presented. Don't kill the messenger! The FCC makes the rules; not
Dawn or me or any of the other folks who have made accurate
statements regarding certification. Use of certified equipment is
required by law. Many people break laws for a variety of reasons, but
that doesn't change the law. For example, everyday I drive over the
speed limit and occasionally I am fined for doing so.
-Matt
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