Sorry one liner....agreed!
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org>
Date:  Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:37:59 -0400

>John,
>
>AMEN!! That pretty much puts it in perspective. Well said.
>
>Tom DeReggi
>RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 3:56 PM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
>
>
>> There are problems with the current rules which if followed to the letter 
>> of the law will lead to stifling innovation and backward behavior by 
>> operators.
>>
>> If Alvarion were to certify the Gabriel antenna with the B-100 then I 
>> would no longer be a criminal. That makes sense? I don't think so.
>>
>> Hey I guess I am nothing but a cowboy for using my $6K pair of Alvarion 
>> B-100 radios with my $1K pair of (already installed and aimed) Gabriel 
>> antennas? I guess there is no rationale for me to want to use a pair of 
>> the best parabolic antennas I have ever seen with installed radomes, 
>> machined mounting hardware, spun aluminum dish, etc. which were already 
>> aimed in place and in use with my previous FCC certified $10K EX-1 radio 
>> system. Using a better antenna already aimed makes me a criminal.
>>
>> I guess there are people here who do not think a company like Gabriel or 
>> any other antenna manufacturer should be able to sell their antennas 
>> unless they can talk a radio manufacturer like Alvarion or Motorola or 
>> somebody else into including their antenna models in their FCC certs? How 
>> is this fair?
>>
>> Should Andrews or Pac Wireless have to beg the radio guys to use their 
>> antennas in their certs to keep people from bashing their customers for 
>> being renegade cowboys who shirk the law? Should makers of single board 
>> computers be denied the right to sell their computing platforms to WISPs 
>> who wish to build quality systems using their platform to carry their 
>> favorite system management / routing / firewall / bandwidth shaping / 
>> captive portal / AP software? Is that fair? How is that any different than 
>> the FCC's recent allowance for any radio card to be installed into any 
>> laptop or desktop platform? Why is it that our SBCs running Linux are 
>> making us lawbreakers while the Dell laptops running Windows, or Linux, 
>> can install any radio modules they wish? Maybe we should start building 
>> APs out of old Del laptops since they have more regulatory leniency than 
>> our computing platforms. They get component level mix and match but the 
>> operators do not? Joe Blow on the street can mix and match any radio with 
>> any computer with any software but we cannot? What gives? We are only 
>> asking for what the PC industry has been granted with one more revision 
>> and that is that antennas be allowed to be mix and match also provided 
>> that EIRP and OOB rules are not broken. Why is it that asking for these 
>> things makes us criminals?
>>
>> Is it right for makers of radio modules to be forced to spend millions of 
>> dollars and wait for months of testing to allow their radio modules to be 
>> placed into a variety of SBCs using hundreds of antenna combinations with 
>> different software platforms or face being called a bunch of law breaking 
>> thugs? Telling WISPs who like having thousands of combinations to choose 
>> from that they are criminals and not giving them the right to at least 
>> consider some form of rational lobbying for better rules is NOT what we 
>> are about. We are NOT telling people to break the law. We DO acknowledge 
>> that the law has problems and we want to help fix those problems. If that 
>> makes us renegade cowboys then I will wear the badge with pride.
>>
>> There is merit to seeing some relaxation of the rules to either allow for 
>> a certified component rule where radios, SBCs, software and antennas can 
>> be assembled into systems which meet the rules or where an operator's 
>> license allows people to self-certify a system that meets the rules.
>>
>> WISPA is NOT about seeing how to justify breaking the law. It is about 
>> making sure the law does not break us.
>> John Scrivner
>>
>>
>> Marty Dougherty wrote:
>>> Well once again I am going to make a statement- I have promised to be
>>> "gone" from here- and I basically am- But I check in once in a while and
>>> the AP1000 thread caught my eye- We have a lot of Ap2000's from YDI (30
>>> or 40)- yes- all legal and purchased as a system from YDI. We have not
>>> bought any other wifi and don't deploy it anymore and we don't mix and
>>> match. As amps etc fail (or start leaking) we use our decommissioned
>>> stock. Hopefully we will have all of them out of the network some day.
>>>
>>> Anyhow, once again the thread goes back to the same subject- Operating
>>> legally and the back and forth pissing about this.
>>> I will tell you all that for SURE you will never get a large scale WISP
>>> to join, support and contribute to WISPA because of this issue. WISPA
>>> will always be a collection of renegades and small time operators who
>>> are known in the industry as "do what you want/need rule breakers".
>>>
>>> More and more of you want to operate with licensed spectrum. At the same
>>> time, the Clearwires and Tower Streams are starting to use unlicensed as
>>> well- What is the difference between them and the typical WISP? The
>>> lines are blending even more now and it will be harder to explain to the
>>> "industry and the FCC" why WISP's want to operate this way but the
>>> "grown ups" can follow the rules?
>>>
>>> Ask yourself why companies like
>>> http://netbnr.net/loc.html?http://www.wcai.com/about_us.htm are not
>>> joining and contributing to WISPA? I joined with the intention of
>>> helping our industry but was almost immediately nailed with this whole
>>> legal operator issue when I spoke up. Not many of us are willing to do
>>> anything with WISPA until that position changes and it has to be at the
>>> EXEC BOARD level. It's very obvious to all that the board does not want
>>> to address the issue under the current rules.
>>>
>>> Save all the usual BS attacks for someone else-they don't bother me and
>>> they wont change a thing for WISPA and only serve to drive more
>>> operators away....
>>>
>>> Marty Dougherty
>>> CEO
>>> Roadstar Internet Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of JohnnyO
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:01 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
>>>
>>>
>>> Ralph - I do believe Butch has a valid point here. If you are using an 
>>> "Orinoco" AP with your own DIY setup (sounds like you are) - I hardly
>>> think you're legal. So why does the pot call the kettle black in this or 
>>> any
>>> other instance ?
>>>
>>> JohnnyO
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:03 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
>>>
>>>
>>> Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in
>>> with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality
>>> to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry
>>>
>>> As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you
>>> for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some
>>> certified designs?
>>>
>>> WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together
>>> and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If
>>> they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already
>>> have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to
>>> Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project.
>>>
>>> How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because
>>> they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization
>>> to ignore them.  Does someone need to get fined and made an example of?
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of Butch Evans
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment <snip> I
>>> suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP?
>>> (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna)  Just for all our comfort,
>>> can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? <snip>
>>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
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>> 
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
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>** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
>** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
>** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
>** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
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** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
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