Sorry, I meant load and delay on that edge router ... not due to multi- hop. I should of read through that last email.

Ryan
On Nov 13, 2007, at 11:13 PM, Brad Belton wrote:

Where would multi-hop have increased the delay and load? Just curious as we recently setup a multi-hop session from a client to us. The session doesn't
appear to establish any different than local sessions.

We also have several clients running BGP multi-hop through our network to
the provider of their choice and this topic hasn't ever come up.

Best,


Brad



-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Langseth
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL TRUTH

Yes, it would have.   Doing it this way will also help us avoid the
extra packets per second through that edge router.   The company we
set this up for is a weather forecasting company and their usage will
probably saturate their connection during peak times.   The VLAN
solution was still a simpler solution for us, and my limited BGP
skills ;)

Although I do not think multi-hop BGP would have been any harder,  it
just avoids the extra delay and load for us.

Ryan


On Nov 13, 2007, at 10:28 PM, Brad Belton wrote:

Wouldn't BGP multi-hop have worked in this situation?

Best,


Brad


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Ryan Langseth
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL TRUTH

You are correct.

We bought all all  three meg units.   These can be upgraded to full
speed SUs, we ended up upgrading one of our SUs to a full speed unit,
the process is pretty simple, just request the key(s) through your
supplier and enter it into the SU.


We have been quite happy with our VL install,  one of our first
customers off of it is currently doing a 6 meg u/d package along with
BGP peering with us,  without the VL the setup would have been much
more complicated. We used the VLAN tagging capabilities to bypass our
normal edge router at the tower site and have them peer directly with
our core router. It made it much simpler, and eliminated the need to
upgrade our edge router to handle full routes.

We did have to upgrade the VL SU to a full capable units since the
first upgrade is to 6/4 meg  rather than sysmetric 6/6 and the upload
was what was important to the customer.


Ryan

On Nov 13, 2007, at 9:38 PM, Smith, Rick wrote:

I have to admit, I was never much of a Patrick Leary or an Alvarion
fan,

until I read this email, which very clearly and "un-smugly" laid out
the

pricing structure and the starter situation / upgrade path that I was
very curious about...

Thanks Patrick.

One last question, this does mean that we can buy all 3 meg units,
and then upgrade them only as the customers require them to be
upgraded, right ?

R


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 1:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL TRUTH

I realize that others have chimed in with respect to performance, I
wanted to officially weigh in on this post with respect to pricing
for
the BreezeACCESS VL product line.

The lowest cost way for a WISP to access BreezeACCESS VL is via the
AlvarionCOMNET cooperative program. This program does require some
level
of quarterly quantity commitment, but that commitment is very low.
The
lowest commitment level is only 10 CPE per quarter and that 10 units
can
be made of any combination of 5.3, 5.4 and/or 5.8 GHz CPE. At that
level
the price per CPE is only $399 and that includes a full integrated
unit
with built-in 19 dBi antenna and the 20-meter shielded outdoor PoE
cable. There is no need with these units to buy reflectors since the
included antenna is already high gain. These units also include
hardware-based AES (meaning AES can be activated with almost no hit
to
capacity, unlike those versions that only enable software-based AES
and
even that comes as an add-on cost). These units also have "Alvarion
only" type advanced features like per CPE distance learning (the AU
talks to each CPE at a different power level, enough to maintain the
desired performance), adjustable noise floor setting, 3rd generation
MIR/CIR and tons of other features that have been listed on this list
before.

While commitments can be any number 10 or higher, additional price
breaks trip per the following levels:

Minimum 25 units/quarter: $349
Minimum 50 units/quarter: $325
Minimum 100 units/quarter: $299
Minimum 300 units/quarter: $275

Also, if one signs at any number 25 of higher per quarter we give a
signing incentive bonus of your choice of either:
- 10 free capacity upgrades for CPE ($1,750 value)
- One free upgrade to convert an AUS (I'll explain what that is in a
moment) to a full AU (MSRP $3,300)
- One free WLP VoIP optimization software upgrade (works on the AU
and
supports all associated CPE to that AU) (MSRP $2,395)

These choices are offered with only a 25 unit commitment and if one
signs at 50 then the choices doubles, at 100 the choices quadruple,
etc., so basically each 25 brings another free choice.

The freebies are also given to members upon referral of another WISP
into the program.

Also, the AlvarionCOMNET program provides for very low cost capacity
upgrades for CPE that can be purchased at any time and in any
quantity.
An upgrade from 3 Mbps 1 MAC (3 Mbps net down/2 Mbps net up) to a 6
Mbps
full bridge (6 Mbps net down/ 4 Mbps up) is a fixed $175. An upgrade
that can take a 6 Mbps unit to a 54 Mbps (32 Mbps net) unit is a
fixed
$250. In order to understand the savings there, consider that a 54
Mbps
CPE is typically $1,995 retail. Through the program the maximum
would be
$824 ($399 + $175 + $250). The idea here is that you do not have to
pay
for more capacity unless you need it and the subscriber is willing to
pay for it.

Additionally, the program has mechanisms that create further price
reductions based on the collective volume of the entire cooperative
(the
entire set of all member CPE shipped each quarter). The additional
discounts are automatic and are tripped at various levels.

I should note also that no billing occurs until the CPE ships each
quarter, so there is no advance payment required. When your ship date
pops up each quarter (a date you set), then the units are drop
shipped
directly to you and the billing happens at that point.

So what about infrastructure (the AU side)? These units are not part
of
the program and are purchased normally through your selected
AlvarionCOMNET VAR and at any time per your need. There are two
types of
AUs. The full AU supports all capacity versions of CPE. AUs ship with
your choice of sector antenna and they provide net throughput of 32
Mbps
(ftp) at the highest modulation. This unit retails for about $5k and
the
discount you can expect is something you should inquire about with
your
VAR.

The second AU option is called an AUS and it is designed for more
rural
markets. The AUS retails for about $2,500 and it supports up to 25
CPE
and can connect to 3 and 6 Mbps CPE versions. It provides the same
net
capacity as the regular AU. At anytime one can upgrade an AUS to a
full
AU, at which time it will support also the 54 Mbps CPEs and whatever
quantity of CPE the sector and your service model supports (we have
some
customers with over 200 CPE on such an AU).

The program also has a few other modest benefits which can be
explained
one on one.

Rick, et al, I hope this provides the information you were looking
for
at least on the from end price side of the equation. Let me know
offlist
if you need more or would like to be referred to an AlvarionCOMNET
partner for more details.

Regards,

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

----- Original Message ----
From: "Smith, Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 9:54:54 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Alvarion VL TRUTH


I need to hear from a WISP that's BOUGHT and USES Alvarion VL
equipment.

I need to hear real world pricing info, quantities, etc.

If anyone can hit me off list, I'd like to throw a few emails back
and
forth.

I'm wondering if my little town coverage project, which was going to
be
all cheap wifi equipment, would be better served by using VL as the
backbone / heavy customer equipment.

Got some other wonders...





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