When you say "it does work and quite well" I presume you mean from a technical point of view only?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Webster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh > Ralph, > You and I were both there in Philly doing optimization and we proved that > it does work and quite well. My point was that there are too many people > who > have no idea what it takes to deploy a wireless network making decisions, > setting up budgets and expectations. I've been working on some other muni > projects and these seem to understand that they themselves must kick in > some > funding. Muni networks will be here in the long run, just not in the form > they were first conceived. Hit me off list by the way. I'm trying to > figure > out if I worked for your dad up in Portland on an AT&T project a few years > back. > > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of ralph > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:33 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh > > > Hello Brian- > Yes- Many of us were involved in the EL projects. > I built their Milpitas, California network. > First network to be completely rolled out on time and not in chunks > First network with a totally stealthed two Canopy cluster AP site > And a few other firsts. > > That network is finished, it works, and works well. > I had the pleasure of using it again while at Cisco for a big partner > meeting three weeks ago. It covers part of Cisco's campus! Ha! > > It is too bad that EL's business model was a failure and that their CEO > who > had the wireless vision died suddenly, and that the remaining one thought > that EL would be better in the Cellular business (Helio). > > I was in Portland two weeks ago and noticed the severe lack of Metro-Fi. > Will they be the next to go? > > Ralph > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of John Scrivner > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 2:10 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh > > I appreciate your insight Brian. I know your were on the front lines > in Philly with Earthlink. I am sure there was much knowledge gained > from your involvement there. Thanks for sharing a bit of what you > experienced. It is a shame we did not think of having you speak about > the Philly project at the upcoming ISPCON. I think the speaking slots > have been filled but maybe they could make an exception and add you > in. It may be that you are not allowed to do so. If you are allowed to > speak about the Earthlink / Philly project then I am guessing this is > something that would be much appreciated by all of us. I will let you > decide whether you think you would want to do this. If you do then > email [EMAIL PROTECTED] so they can discuss this with you. They are > building the agenda for the speaking slots at the show. > Scriv > > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:34 AM, Brian Webster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> No big surprise here. The problem with the municipal networks >> that > I saw >> was the cities that thought they were going to get all this >> infrastructure >> for free. I'm sorry but I don't think you can get enough ad revenue from > any >> of these networks to support the real cost of building a system properly. > In >> reality all of these cities should have learned from Verizon and their > wi-fi >> deployment in New York City. Verizon was never able to build on every > phone >> booth because they didn't all have power at them. They discovered after >> building what they could, that usage patterns emerged. People were only > apt >> to use the hotspots in locations where they could conveniently fire up > their >> computers. Municipal mesh networks should do the same. Deploy what I call >> "Hot Pods" only in areas that make sense. Residential neighborhoods make > no >> sense in my opinion. There are many other options for broadband in those >> neighborhoods and with the trees typically in those areas, your node > density >> per user ratio stinks (and your customer per node ratio does as well). > That >> is what drives up the cost of building these networks. >> If a municipality wants ubiquitous coverage all over a city for > their >> employees to use, then they should be paying a large portion of the cost > of >> that network. You can't expect someone else to pay for it for you. > Wireless >> is great but to compete in residential areas over a mesh on 802.11b/g is > not >> a good business model. With things like FIOS and cable being able to > deliver >> 3 to 10 times the bandwidth to a customer, mesh does not make sense and > the >> consumer knows this. Wireless is good for mobility but most users do not >> need it everywhere all the time. >> No let me really climb up on my soapbox..... As far as free > internet >> service for citizens, that makes about as much sense as free telephone, >> electricity and gas!!!! If they worry about their underprivileged >> neighborhoods not have equal opportunity access to the internet, have >> them >> stand around their local library where they already offer this. Unless > there >> are lines a mile long at the computers, I doubt there is that much of a > pent >> up need. These same people can somehow find a way to pay $5 a pack for >> cigarettes, I don't think $35 a month or less for broadband service that >> they can then use to reduce other cost like phone bills will make a >> difference. Broadband internet is an essential infrastructure for a >> community. That is true. Providing it for free can not be done unless the >> municipality is going to foot the bill. All WISP's know it takes money to >> deliver bandwidth. Many of these mesh projects were led down the Primrose >> path by their internal IT geeks who thought a muni mesh network was as >> simple as throwing up a bunch of meraki nodes or flashing some linksys >> routers with open source tools. Those Utopian idealists forget to think >> about who then bears the cost of delivering the rest of the commercial >> internet to their love and hug fest........ <off soap box....lol> >> Don't get me wrong, I was the Chief Engineer for EarthLink on the > Philly >> project. I like the idea of municipal mesh and I know they can work. I > just >> think many municipalities and some commercial companies needs a reality >> check on what it takes in cost to build one. Then they need to examine > what >> it takes to make a profitable business model from one. Eventually these >> networks will be working well and with devices like the IPhone, cellular >> carriers will welcome them to offload some of their traffic (roaming >> revenue?). Their networks certainly won't be able to shoulder the > bandwidth >> demand of all the kids watching TV on their phones. Muni mesh networks > will >> be able to absorb a lot of that demand. It's just time the politicians >> realized it costs some long term money to develop this....... I could go > on >> for hours but I'm know I'm just preaching to the choir on this topic. >> It's >> Monday, guess I needed to vent... :-) >> >> >> >> Thank You, >> Brian Webster >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Behalf Of Jack Unger >> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:45 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] MetroFi - Portland - Uh oh >> >> >> >> http://wifinetnews.com/archives/008158.html >> >> >> -- >> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. >> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 >> FCC License # PG-12-25133 >> Author of the Cisco Press Book - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" >> Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting >> Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> WISPA Wants You! 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