24 ghz? Maybe 28 Ghz 

Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-----Original Message-----
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multi-Point MMW- was Ceragon, Dragonwave and
whatelse?

Charles,

Thanks for the clarification on "no ptmp."

However, it should be noted that 24Ghz PtMP does exist, via other
product lines. My understanding is that XO currently does it here in DC,
at one of our cell sites. I can't remember what gear they use to
accomplish it. (maybe
Hughes?) I do not know if this is with Unlicensed, or with the other
geographic licensed 24Ghz bands.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Wu (CTI)" <c...@cticonnect.com>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multi-Point MMW- was Ceragon, Dragonwave and
whatelse?


> 1. Dragonwave WILL NOT work in PtMP in the sense you're talking about 
> (e.g., as things currently stand, radios associate on a 1:1 basis --
now, 
> you could "disconnect" and "reconnect" to different radios, but that 
> wouldn't exactly be considered "real-time" PtMP switching)
>
> 2. Off the top of my head, I'm not exactly sure about 24 GHz, but Part
15 
> STIPULATES minimum antenna beamwidths for licensing (hence the 6' dish
for 
> 6 GHz, 2' for 18 GHz, etc)
>
> 3. No -- while you *could* do PtMP -- problem is antenna beamwidth 
> requirements (and interference protection minimums)
>
> -Charles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On 
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 4:02 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Multi-Point MMW- was Ceragon, Dragonwave and
whatelse?
>
> While on topic... I was reading on Dragonwave's group authentication.
> Apparently it allows multiple to Radios to connect togeather, with
Group
> authentication.
> Infering that the technology could be used for PtMP installations.
>
> What first came to mind was using unlicensed 24Ghz, to get 100-300mbps

> PtMP
> for connecting short proximity located Commercial buildings.
>
> Can anyone confirm that the Dragonwave will work in PtMP.  (apposed to

> just
> connecting a failover radio)
> If so.... How is the protocol accomplished? I thought Dragonwave was
TDD
> based instead of CDMA? Is that not the case?
>
> Obviously, beamwidth is narrow on 24Ghz (1.5 degree on a 2ft dish),
but it
> would not be for very short distances, with a panel.
> Again, this would be very short distances, considering the rain fade
and 
> low
> power requirements of 24Ghz.
>
> And as well, in 23Ghz and 18Ghz, is there any rules that prevent PtMP,
if 
> it
> was a narrow beam PtMP system, (for example 3 radio system) as long as
all
> three radios get considered in the Freq Coordination study?
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <lakel...@gbcx.net>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 3:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>
>
>>I believe (but not sure) Ceragon was the first with a DPRM mount.
>>
>> But agree with everything else
>>
>> :-)
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Tom DeReggi" <wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net>
>>
>> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:32:12
>> To: WISPA General List<wireless@wispa.org>
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>
>>
>> Good advice Bob, but I'll add.... There is a purpose for each model,
and
>> for
>> that matter also a specific manufacturer, and all ODU is not always
the
>> best
>> choice.
>>
>> For example... Trango boasts several core benefits, for some
>> circumstances.
>> Its Giga Split archetiecture allows Coax installs to extend up to
1000ft.
>> (Dragonwave's Coax split Archetecture, still has limits to 150-200
feet 
>> or
>> so, according to their docs.).  Trango's Apex allows optional Fiber
>> termination with a very easilly accessible connectors. (Dragonwave on
the
>> other hand has the Fiber connectors poorly located, that require
taking
>> the
>> case apart in order to reach them.) Because of this, for long cable
>> deployments, I prefer Trango.  Or if on short deadline, and Freq
Coords
>> not
>> complete, Trango equipment can be ordered in advance of completion 
>> because
>> they can support more channels per ODU model. (For example, 18 and 23
Ghz
>> only have one ODU Pair choice).   Its also important to note, it
should
>> not
>> be midunderstood the purpose of Trango Gigas's 4 ports. They are
Private
>> VLAN.  This is really great for when a link needs to be shared. For
>> example,
>> Port 1 for the customer that paid to get the link installed. Port2
for 
>> the
>> ISP's other traffic to serve other clients in the building.  This is
>> enabled
>> with zero complexity, that way.  The far end switch/router equipment
do
>> not
>> need configuration or being the same to accommodate segregation. This
is
>> not
>> useful for all installs, but in some cases, this is a unique benefit.
>>
>> Dragonwave offers different benefits... For example... The Airpair
>> supports
>> a whole wealth of different ODU Radios that can be interchanged with
the
>> Indoor rack unit. If one doesn't buy advanced replacement warrantees,
its
>> much cheaper to just order in an ODU seperately, than a Full outdoor
>> radio.
>> I'd rather float $3000 to get a replacements ODU in, than $12,000 for
a
>> full
>> Horizon.  We'd use All ODU models where we have live backup links in
>> place,
>> and can afford to wait for a Manufacturer replacement.   With that
said,
>> we
>> love All ODU units, it makes for a much quicker/simpler install, with

>> Zero
>> Footprint needed inside. This is great for MTU buildings, where they
need
>> to
>> be installed in small closets, or penthouse walls. The Dragonwaves
were
>> the
>> first to be able to combine radios for double the capacity, so more
>> expandabilty.  Airpair offers 25% more capacity than the Trango giga,
>> where
>> split archetecture is needed.  Dragonwave offers a dealer channel for
>> those
>> that will benefit from it.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Moldashel" <lakel...@gbcx.net>
>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 6:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>
>>
>>> Well....a couple of notes...
>>>
>>> I personally would use an all ODU version because it makes servicing
a
>>> breeze and also swapping out a bad radio quick and simple. No
guessing
>>> about is it the indoor unit, is it the outdoor unit, is it the
interface
>>> cable???  Get an all ODU like the Dragonwave Horizon and you run
CAT5
>>> and you're done. If you get a cable issue you either can't log in or
see
>>> no handshake with your switch/router or..If one of the POE lines are
bad
>>> your radio will continue to reboot. Troubleshoot the radio on the
ground
>>> with a patch cable and you rule out your cabling system.
>>>
>>> Like was mentioned elsewhere here if you are concerned with theft
you
>>> can lock the radios in place. This can be done by putting a security
>>> screw in place of the grounding screw and use a cable assembly to
lock
>>> it up. If the theft concern is that high you should probably
consider
>>> another location.
>>>
>>> With weather being a concern you could always install a second
parallel
>>> link on the same antenna using a DPRM mount. Then if one link fails
the
>>> other could be engaged to carry the traffic.
>>>
>>> I do not see this link really working (high 9's reliability) without
4'
>>> antennas. That of course leads to new mounting issues.  At 6 Ghz.
you
>>> are looking at 6' minimum dishes.  Figure 600-800 lbs per antenna
with
>>> mount not to say the least about cost, shipping and installation.
>>>
>>> I personally like Dragonwave for 2 reasons.  1 - The service
facility is
>>> in this part of the hemisphere which allows me to get equipment
>>> overnight in emergencies.  2 - One year advanced replacement is only
>>> $500/year per radio.  Allows me to sleep easily.
>>>
>>> This does not mean I do not like Ceragon. They are just doing some
>>> growing pains things at the moment and most of the stuff is serviced
>>> overseas unless it is an interface or something simple.
>>>
>>> Dragonwave support is very responsive though you do have to leave
your
>>> name with a service and they call you back.  I have installed more
than
>>> 45 Dragonwave links in the past 2 years and have only had 2
failures.
>>>
>>> There are other options but history, price or delivery will kill
them as
>>> an option.
>>>
>>> And stay away from equipment that does switching for you. Do all
your
>>> control external to the radio.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paolo Di Francesco wrote:
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>> we are considering to move to licensed frequencies for back hauling
and
>>>> therefore some hints would be really appreciated. We are looking at
2
>>>> main manufacturers (Ceragon/Dragonwave) so the problem is "which
one
>>>> fits better for our needs"?
>>>>
>>>> Just to summarize:
>>>>
>>>> a) links are around 20-25 miles
>>>> b) antennas: the smaller the better
>>>> c) robustness is very important
>>>> d) average life: 3 years
>>>>
>>>> >From what I have read in the data sheets I have done the following
>>>> considerations:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Dragonwave Horizon is nice but only if your site is well
protected
>>>> from "sabotage and stealing". The "all outdoor" approach is nice
but it
>>>> has the drawback that if somebody takes the whole unit they will
have a
>>>> brand new unit working. With the IDU/ODU approach they will have
only
>>>> half of the "banknote", so after the first or second time, they
will 
>>>> not
>>>> spend time having something useless.
>>>> 2) Dragonwave Horizon can be a problem if you don't use fiber from
the
>>>> unit down to your switch. In few words, we have sites with huge
amount
>>>> or EM fields, so even using shielded cables (e.g. Belden 1300A) we
get
>>>> only few ethernet megabits. So we should use fiber to go up the
tower,
>>>> but maybe be IDU/ODU approach is more robust (comments welcome).
>>>> 3) All outdoor means that when you have to re-use the devices
somewhere
>>>> else, you have to buy a whole new thing instead of just swapping
the
>>>> ODU.
>>>> 4) In any case the (all outdoor or IDU/ODU) when the tower is
frozen
>>>> (and when I mean frozen I mean a whole block of ice) then it does
not
>>>> change much, you have to wait the better season to work on that.
>>>> 5) Performances look more or less the same.
>>>> 6) I don't know much about prices, I have looked on some website, I
am
>>>> still exploring this aspect
>>>> 7) Is anybody using the software-switch capabilities on this
devices or
>>>> just using them as transparent bridges for your router/switch? Do
you
>>>> need to reset them often?
>>>>
>>>> Comments are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Am I missing some other good brand?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1899 - Release Date:
>>> 1/17/2009
>>> 5:50 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1902 - Release Date: 
>> 1/19/2009
>> 9:37 AM
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity
to 
> which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, 
> confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the 
> reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee
or 
> agent responsible for delivery of the message to the intended
recipient, 
> you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of 
> this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this 
> communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at 
> 630-344-1586.
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1902 - Release Date:
1/19/2009 
> 9:37 AM
>
> 



------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Reply via email to