So when you build a Trango backhaul network you hope they don't ruin
you like they did for us trying to do use 700 dollar CPEs.

I have not used Trango backhaul products due to the horrible
experience, cost and support for the Acess 5800 and 5830 products.

On 2/11/09, John Seaman <j...@trangosys.com> wrote:
> Just to clear up a few points...  Daniel's claim of number of Trango's
> units shipped is WAY off.  He has no way of knowing what we have
> shipped.  Trango is a private company and as such we dont divulge
> specifics, but I can tell you that the actual shipments are FAR greater
> and a very significant portion of the links shipped have gone outside
> the US and as such you wont see them show up in the FCC database. Our
> overall numbers of links shipped may be small compared to Ceragon and
> the big guys but the product has gained widespread acceptance, traction
> and is quickly gaining momentum.  Why else would our competitors be
> acting so nervous?  Trango has firmly established itself with
> TrangoLINK-GIGA and APEX in the WISP market.  Now we are also gaining
> excellent traction with counties, states, cities, utilities, as well as
> the US Military... These entities traditionally deploylargest quantities
> of wireless backhaul sytems, compared to mobile operators who deploy by
> far the most.  (although most mobile operator deployments are still
> strictly TDM).  There is no stopping Trango.  We will continue to peck
> away at Dragonwave's marketshare and gradually we'll be taking larger
> and larger portions of it.  Dragonwave did not ship $50mil last year, it
> was closer to $40Mil - and by the way they are losing tons of money
> quarter-after-quarter.  Trango is, and has always been profitable.
>
> I actually don't have a side-by side comparison of the two products
> handy. We really should put one together.   Truth is there are many
> similarities and also some key differences.  For those who may not be
> aware, Trango offers two primary product lines:  TrangoLINK-GIGA and
> TrangoLINK-APEX.  GIGA is our split architecture system which offers 4
> GigE Ports (Dragonwave 1), 8 T1 ports (Dragonwave zero).  The APEX is
> the all outdoor POE product which offers a GigE port as well as a
> plug-in slot for a fiber SFP module. I have never been able to determine
> how the Dragonwave optical option works...but I dont think it is
> anything as simple as APEX (Daniel feel free to provide details).  Both
> of the traffic ports (optical and GigE copper) on the APEX can be used
> simultaneously.  GIGA and APEX both offer port priority and QoS
> functionality as well as rapid port shutdown.  The multiple port option
> allows users to completely segregate traffic from one port to the next.
> Dragonwave does not have this feature.    The APEX offers TRUE "Hitless"
> ACM which is Adaptive Coding Modulation which means the system will move
> to slower modulations without taking any hits.  I don't believe that
> Horizon Compact offers hitless ACM.  Daniel, feel free to correct me if
> I am wrong.   Regarding the GIGA, one other point which comes up often
> is that the Dragonwave split solution (Airpair) allows only for very
> short (300 ft?) IF cable runs.  TrangoLINK-GIGA allows for 1000 ft of
> cable.
>
> As for Daniel's other points:
> -Products available now: TrangoLINK-GIGA 6, 11, 18, 23 GHz. APEX 18, 11
> GHz.  23 Ghz coming next month.
> -Power Consumption: TrangoLINK-APEX power consumption is lower than
> Horizon Compact High power version although higher than Horizon standard
> power version, which stands to reason.
> -Field Proven:  Latest releases of GIGA and APEX firmware highly stable.
> TrangoLINK-GIGA  has been in the field for  18 months now.
> -CLI/GUI:  You can do a full link setup using only the GUI interface on
> GIGA and APEX although admitedly the CLI has more functionality.  Our
> firware engineers will enhance this in future releases.  The CLI is very
> much like a Cisco interface and most users are very comfortable in the
> CLI.
> -LED Allignment - the allignment tool has received rave reviews from
> most installers.  One thing I'd like to mention is that our newer ODUs
> coming out, and all APEX models have built-in power detector in the ODU
> to make the RSSI readouts more responsive than in the earlier ODUs.  So
> the LED indicator that Daniel used on his nine-link deployment has
> improved greatly in that it is highly responsive. Daniel if you get a
> chance to do another allignment I am sure you will love the LED
> allignment tool on the newer radios.
> - APEX output power 3-8 dB better than Horizon compact standard model.
> Horizon HP version 2.5 dB better than APEX at higher modulations (better
> at lower modulation).
> - Trango 18 Ghz covers 17.7 GHz - 18.14 & 19.265 - 19.7 GHz.  This is
> 440 MHz of spectrum..  I dont know the DW spec on this, but I do know
> that I've never heard of a license being declined because there's not
> enough channels availble in the radio.
> - Daniel is the only one I've heard of complaining about the waveguide
> transition between he ODU and the antenna.  It requires four little
> screws to put it in.  Not a big deal.  The only reason we don't attach
> it here in the factory is to enable the user the option to use a
> waveguide adapter (instead of the transition) in the event they want to
> connect the ODU to piece of flex waveguide so that it can be used with
> any dish with a waveguide flange.
> - Contact us or CTI for pricing off-list.
>
>
>
>
> John Seaman
> Trango Systems, Inc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:36 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
>
> Brad,
>
> Go back through the list achieves... I think I have made my stance on
> why Dragonwave is better in my opinion than Trango.  I've installed nine
> Trango Giga links... so my opinion is based on my own personal
> experience... not just the Dragonwave marketing material.  I didn't
> repost these comments because many got tired of the whole
> Dragonwave/Trango battle on the list.  I sent this to someone earlier
> though... I could come up with more reasons if you wish... or just go
> back through the achieves.
>
> - Volume of product sold - Dragonwave sold $50 million dollars worth of
> equipment last year... by all reports Trango sold only 100 links or so.
> It is not unreasonable to think that Trango may not last in the market,
> especially with them ditching their point to multi-point product.
>
> - Dragonwave 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 24GHz, and 38GHz is all
> available now.
>
> - Lower power consumption
>
> - Field Proven - Firmware releases are stable... Trango has only been in
> the field for about a year now, and firmware by many accounts is still
> buggy.
>
> - CLI/GUI - Trango GUI is not useable, all commands must come from the
> CLI.
> Often these commands are confusing to use.  Dragonwave can be configured
> either way easily.
>
> - LED Alignment/Voltmeter Alignment - LED Alignment on Trango gear is
> not as accurate as voltmeter on Dragonwave... can make aligning
> difficult links that much harder (since you only have two digits vs.
> four).  From my own personal experience on this one.
>
> - Better link margins when using the High Power product
>
> - Trango 18GHz equipment does not cover the full band... I can dig up
> the e-mail I sent to the list about this.
>
> - Dragonwave does not have a waveguide adapter between the dish and the
> ODU... this caused a few problems on the massive Trango deployment I did
> (9
> links)
>
> The price difference is in the sub-$1k range.  I don't quote pricing on
> the list unless it is an advertised special.  If you want a quote... hit
> me offlist.
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>
>>Behalf Of Brad Belton
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:06 PM
>>To: 'WISPA General List'
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
>>
>>Hello Daniel,
>>
>>Well, that is disappointing as I was hoping for more substance from you
>
>>to back up your statements regarding "close" in price and "performance
>>much better".  Instead you've chosen to throw a stone at a competing
>>product and run the other way.
>>
>>I guess we'll have to chalk up your comments as all show and no go...
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>
>>Brad
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>
>>Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:49 PM
>>To: 'WISPA General List'
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
>>
>>I'm going to go with Jeff on this one... there has been multiple
>>threads on this topic... I think it has been beat to death.  If you
>>want to talk about it offlist I'd be happy to.
>>
>>As far as the price difference... I'd be happy to quote the Dragonwave
>>and let you compare it to the published Trango deals... but my personal
>
>>opinion is that you are not paying a premium for the Dragonwave name...
>
>>compared to what I would consider the benefits.
>>
>>Daniel White
>>3-dB Networks
>>http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>On Behalf Of Jeff Ehman
>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:08 PM
>>>To: WISPA General List
>>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
>>>
>>>All,
>>>
>>>When comparing exactly apples to apples, there is about a 10-20%
>>premium
>>>for a Dragonwave product.
>>>
>>>There are plenty of threads on this topic.  I would be happy to grab a
>
>>>bunch for you so hit me off off-list.  It really depends on your
>>>application for which product you would like to go with.  I would be
>>>more than happy to walk you through everything.
>>>
>>>I try to refrain from stating opinions in a public forum.
>>>
>>>-Jeff
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>On Behalf Of Brad Belton
>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:36 PM
>>>To: 'WISPA General List'
>>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
>>>
>>>Hello Daniel,
>>>
>>>Can you elaborate in what way the Dragonwave "performance is much
>>>better"?
>>>Do you have a comparison chart you can share with us explaining how a
>>>Dragonwave stacks up against competing products.  Namely Trango in
>>>this case.
>>>
>>>Exactly how close is "close" when you mention pricing between the two
>>>products?  "Close" is a relative term don't you agree?  So, are we
>>>talking $5, $50, $500, $5000?
>>>
>>>Look forward to your responses.
>>>
>>>Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:25 PM
>>>To: 'WISPA General List'
>>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
>>>
>>>Well...
>>>
>>>I'd be happy to quote you a Dragonwave link... I think you will be
>>>surprised how close it comes to the Trango pricing... and I think the
>>>performance is much better (I don't want to rehash that whole thread).
>>>
>>>We also will take care of all of the licensing work for you.
>>>
>>>Hit me offlist if you like.
>>>
>>>Daniel White
>>>3-dB Networks
>>>http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>On
>>>>Behalf Of Andrew Niemantsverdriet
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:08 AM
>>>>To: WISPA General List
>>>>Subject: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
>>>>
>>>>I am looking for a good place to get an 18ghz link, where do you guys
>
>>>>suggest. Ideally the company would also procure the licence for us. I
>
>>>>am thinking I want the Trango APEX because of it cost / performance.
>>>>So if anybody has suggestions on a good company to use I am all ears!
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>> _
>>>>/-\ ndrew
>>>>
>>>>
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