Charles, Thanks for the prompt response , I was thinking more on availability.
Say I'm on a crowded area, what would be the chances of not getting the license? Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Feb 12, 2009, at 2:24 PM, "Charles Wu" <c...@cticonnect.com> wrote: > Unfortunately, it's the same as getting a new license...the only > difference comes in application fees > > If it's a BRAND NEW tower with nothing -- you pay the FCC $640 / > site for a new application > If it's a MODIFICATION to an existing tower with a license -- you > pay the FCC $240 / site for a major modification > > -Charles > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On Behalf Of Gino Villarini > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:42 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link > > On this subject > > Charles, others: > > Whats the process of making a change to an existing license? Let > say I > wish to move to one tower 1/4 mile away? > > > Gino A. Villarini > g...@aeronetpr.com > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > Behalf Of jp > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:39 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link > > We are facing two simultaneous issues at some of our sites. I'm sure > we're not the only ones with such dilemas. > 1. We've run out of 5.8ghz spectrum. This can be addressed by changing > to 5.4ghz or 3.65ghz for some of the shorter backhauls. > 2. The normal 5ghz upto-45mbps stuff isn't fast enough for some of our > links in the near future. Faster 5ghz stuff uses more spectrum; see > dilema 1. > > On the low end, to conserve 5.8 spectrum, we've taken out some BA-II > 2.4ghz stuff to clean up our spectrum and done 2.4ghz G links on 10mhz > to low end longer distance links such as MT crossroads horizontally > polarized. > > On the middle of the scale, we've upgraded some b14/b28 gear to > Trangolink45 to get more speed out of existing links and spectrum. > > On the high end, there are some shorter distance 5.8ghz links we could > replace with 5.4, but that sort of investment would only accomplish > one > of the goals, which is to preserve 5.8 spectrum. That investment would > not increase our speed at all. If I'm going to replace those links > with > an upgrade, it should be substantially faster, and a 24ghz unlicensed > link could accomplish that in many cases. > > I'm in a rural area, so I'm not really worried about interference of > 24ghz (or any frequency used strictly for ptp). We do have other wisps > using 5.8,2.4,900, and cell and phone companies doing 5.8 backhauls to > contend with. Most of the interference is from ptmp gear of my own and > others, and some from colocated backhaul gear of the other mentioned > sources. 24ghz should be really easy to avoid interference if used > strictly for ptp links. > > For one of our busy sites right now, we have two 5ghz links to it in > order to have good speed, as one wasn't enough (and the redundancy > was a > good byproduct). I would love a few cost effective <2 mile links that > don't need licensing, doesn't use 5ghz and can do 200mbps actual > data or > faster. If 24ghz can do that, we'd take it. > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 01:21:11PM -0800, John Seaman wrote: >> Thanks Tom, we're not convinced about 24 GHz... the power limits are >> very low. We are looking at it but we're trying to size up the 24 >> GHz > >> market before we make the commitment to pursue this frequency. I do >> know that in Canada there is good demnand for 24 GHz (since licensing >> fees are extremely high) .. but here is the US, the licensing costs >> are so low that most users prefer to go with licensed band.. at least >> that has been our perception of the market so far. I would like to >> hear others view points on 24 GHz. >> >> John >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:13 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >> >>> The only reason we don't attach >>> it here in the factory is to enable the user the option to use a >>> waveguide adapter (instead of the transition) in the event they want > >>> to connect the ODU to piece of flex waveguide so that it can be used > >>> with any dish with a waveguide flange. >> >> Good feature for those who want to upgrade pre-existing installed >> slower >> DS-3 type radios with new state of the art IP, using already >> installed > >> dish. >> >> As someone who has now used both the Trango and Dragonwave >> products, I > >> can honestly say they are both very fine products, and a buyer >> couldn't possibly go wrong with either purchase decission. But, we >> have reached a point where a buyer does not HAVE TO accept a >> significant technical compromise anymore >> to gain a "better price". I will not get into a debate of which >> product is >> "better", as there are very tiny differences that might be more or >> less preferable dependant on the buyer's application or personal > preference. >> But I will say, Dragonwave will lose sales, if they try to keep their >> price higher, and at minimum are at a stage requiring price matching. >> There was a time that "Dragonwave" was considered the "premium" >> product, but today there are many buyers that would argue the >> opposite > >> that Trango is now becomming the more "premium" product. I'll leave >> that decission to the prospective buyer. >> >> What I'd like to see from Dragonwave, is for them to give their >> distributors better prices consistently by default, so they can be >> more competitive. I think their quality resellers deserve that >> assistance, and the markup they add to generate sales. >> >> What I'd like to see from Trango, is for them to embrace 24Ghz, and >> add it to their collection. There is a Huge market for this, to >> empower WISPs to close deals and isntall links without delay. >> (even if they were converted to 23Ghz licensed down the road). >> >> What would be really cool, is a 23Ghz unit that was wideband and >> supported 23Ghz through 24Ghz, where software implemented the >> neccessary power reductions at 24Ghz unlicensed to keep it legal, >> when > >> the channel was selected. I do not know if that is technically >> acheivable or not, without compromise. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Seaman" <j...@trangosys.com> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >> >> >>> Just to clear up a few points... Daniel's claim of number of >>> Trango's units shipped is WAY off. He has no way of knowing what we > >>> have shipped. Trango is a private company and as such we dont >>> divulge specifics, but I can tell you that the actual shipments are >>> FAR >> greater >>> and a very significant portion of the links shipped have gone >>> outside the US and as such you wont see them show up in the FCC >>> database. Our overall numbers of links shipped may be small compared > >>> to Ceragon and the big guys but the product has gained widespread >>> acceptance, >> traction >>> and is quickly gaining momentum. Why else would our competitors be >>> acting so nervous? Trango has firmly established itself with >>> TrangoLINK-GIGA and APEX in the WISP market. Now we are also >>> gaining excellent traction with counties, states, cities, utilities, > >>> as well >> as >>> the US Military... These entities traditionally deploylargest >> quantities >>> of wireless backhaul sytems, compared to mobile operators who deploy >> by >>> far the most. (although most mobile operator deployments are still >>> strictly TDM). There is no stopping Trango. We will continue to >>> peck away at Dragonwave's marketshare and gradually we'll be taking >>> larger and larger portions of it. Dragonwave did not ship $50mil >>> last year, >> it >>> was closer to $40Mil - and by the way they are losing tons of money >>> quarter-after-quarter. Trango is, and has always been profitable. >>> >>> I actually don't have a side-by side comparison of the two products >>> handy. We really should put one together. Truth is there are many >>> similarities and also some key differences. For those who may not >>> be aware, Trango offers two primary product lines: TrangoLINK-GIGA >>> and TrangoLINK-APEX. GIGA is our split architecture system which >>> offers 4 GigE Ports (Dragonwave 1), 8 T1 ports (Dragonwave zero). >>> The APEX is the all outdoor POE product which offers a GigE port as >>> well as a plug-in slot for a fiber SFP module. I have never been >>> able to >> determine >>> how the Dragonwave optical option works...but I dont think it is >>> anything as simple as APEX (Daniel feel free to provide details). >> Both >>> of the traffic ports (optical and GigE copper) on the APEX can be >>> used simultaneously. GIGA and APEX both offer port priority and QoS > >>> functionality as well as rapid port shutdown. The multiple port >> option >>> allows users to completely segregate traffic from one port to the >> next. >>> Dragonwave does not have this feature. The APEX offers TRUE >> "Hitless" >>> ACM which is Adaptive Coding Modulation which means the system will >> move >>> to slower modulations without taking any hits. I don't believe that > >>> Horizon Compact offers hitless ACM. Daniel, feel free to correct me >> if >>> I am wrong. Regarding the GIGA, one other point which comes up > often >>> is that the Dragonwave split solution (Airpair) allows only for very > >>> short (300 ft?) IF cable runs. TrangoLINK-GIGA allows for 1000 ft >>> of cable. >>> >>> As for Daniel's other points: >>> -Products available now: TrangoLINK-GIGA 6, 11, 18, 23 GHz. APEX 18, >> 11 >>> GHz. 23 Ghz coming next month. >>> -Power Consumption: TrangoLINK-APEX power consumption is lower than >>> Horizon Compact High power version although higher than Horizon >> standard >>> power version, which stands to reason. >>> -Field Proven: Latest releases of GIGA and APEX firmware highly >> stable. >>> TrangoLINK-GIGA has been in the field for 18 months now. >>> -CLI/GUI: You can do a full link setup using only the GUI interface >> on >>> GIGA and APEX although admitedly the CLI has more functionality. >>> Our firware engineers will enhance this in future releases. The CLI > >>> is >> very >>> much like a Cisco interface and most users are very comfortable in >>> the CLI. >>> -LED Allignment - the allignment tool has received rave reviews from > >>> most installers. One thing I'd like to mention is that our newer >>> ODUs coming out, and all APEX models have built-in power detector in > >>> the >> ODU >>> to make the RSSI readouts more responsive than in the earlier ODUs. >> So >>> the LED indicator that Daniel used on his nine-link deployment has >>> improved greatly in that it is highly responsive. Daniel if you get >>> a chance to do another allignment I am sure you will love the LED >>> allignment tool on the newer radios. >>> - APEX output power 3-8 dB better than Horizon compact standard > model. >>> Horizon HP version 2.5 dB better than APEX at higher modulations >> (better >>> at lower modulation). >>> - Trango 18 Ghz covers 17.7 GHz - 18.14 & 19.265 - 19.7 GHz. This >>> is 440 MHz of spectrum.. I dont know the DW spec on this, but I do >>> know that I've never heard of a license being declined because >>> there's not enough channels availble in the radio. >>> - Daniel is the only one I've heard of complaining about the >>> waveguide transition between he ODU and the antenna. It requires >>> four little screws to put it in. Not a big deal. The only reason >>> we don't attach it here in the factory is to enable the user the >>> option to use a waveguide adapter (instead of the transition) in the > >>> event they want >> to >>> connect the ODU to piece of flex waveguide so that it can be used >>> with any dish with a waveguide flange. >>> - Contact us or CTI for pricing off-list. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> John Seaman >>> Trango Systems, Inc. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:36 AM >>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>> >>> Brad, >>> >>> Go back through the list achieves... I think I have made my stance >>> on why Dragonwave is better in my opinion than Trango. I've >>> installed >> nine >>> Trango Giga links... so my opinion is based on my own personal >>> experience... not just the Dragonwave marketing material. I didn't >>> repost these comments because many got tired of the whole >>> Dragonwave/Trango battle on the list. I sent this to someone >>> earlier though... I could come up with more reasons if you wish... >>> or just go back through the achieves. >>> >>> - Volume of product sold - Dragonwave sold $50 million dollars worth >> of >>> equipment last year... by all reports Trango sold only 100 links or >> so. >>> It is not unreasonable to think that Trango may not last in the >> market, >>> especially with them ditching their point to multi-point product. >>> >>> - Dragonwave 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 24GHz, and 38GHz is all >>> available now. >>> >>> - Lower power consumption >>> >>> - Field Proven - Firmware releases are stable... Trango has only >>> been >> in >>> the field for about a year now, and firmware by many accounts is >>> still buggy. >>> >>> - CLI/GUI - Trango GUI is not useable, all commands must come from >>> the CLI. >>> Often these commands are confusing to use. Dragonwave can be >> configured >>> either way easily. >>> >>> - LED Alignment/Voltmeter Alignment - LED Alignment on Trango gear >>> is not as accurate as voltmeter on Dragonwave... can make aligning >>> difficult links that much harder (since you only have two digits vs. >>> four). From my own personal experience on this one. >>> >>> - Better link margins when using the High Power product >>> >>> - Trango 18GHz equipment does not cover the full band... I can dig >>> up the e-mail I sent to the list about this. >>> >>> - Dragonwave does not have a waveguide adapter between the dish and >> the >>> ODU... this caused a few problems on the massive Trango deployment I >> did >>> (9 >>> links) >>> >>> The price difference is in the sub-$1k range. I don't quote pricing >> on >>> the list unless it is an advertised special. If you want a quote... >> hit >>> me offlist. >>> >>> Daniel White >>> 3-dB Networks >>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>>> boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>> >>>> Behalf Of Brad Belton >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:06 PM >>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>> >>>> Hello Daniel, >>>> >>>> Well, that is disappointing as I was hoping for more substance from >> you >>> >>>> to back up your statements regarding "close" in price and >>>> "performance much better". Instead you've chosen to throw a stone >>>> at a competing product and run the other way. >>>> >>>> I guess we'll have to chalk up your comments as all show and no > go... >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> >>>> Brad >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>>> boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>> >>>> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:49 PM >>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>> >>>> I'm going to go with Jeff on this one... there has been multiple >>>> threads on this topic... I think it has been beat to death. If you >>>> want to talk about it offlist I'd be happy to. >>>> >>>> As far as the price difference... I'd be happy to quote the >>>> Dragonwave and let you compare it to the published Trango deals... >>>> but my >> personal >>> >>>> opinion is that you are not paying a premium for the Dragonwave >> name... >>> >>>> compared to what I would consider the benefits. >>>> >>>> Daniel White >>>> 3-dB Networks >>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of Jeff Ehman >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:08 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>>> >>>>> All, >>>>> >>>>> When comparing exactly apples to apples, there is about a 10-20% >>>> premium >>>>> for a Dragonwave product. >>>>> >>>>> There are plenty of threads on this topic. I would be happy to >>>>> grab >> a >>> >>>>> bunch for you so hit me off off-list. It really depends on your >>>>> application for which product you would like to go with. I would >>>>> be more than happy to walk you through everything. >>>>> >>>>> I try to refrain from stating opinions in a public forum. >>>>> >>>>> -Jeff >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of Brad Belton >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:36 PM >>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>>> >>>>> Hello Daniel, >>>>> >>>>> Can you elaborate in what way the Dragonwave "performance is much >>>>> better"? >>>>> Do you have a comparison chart you can share with us explaining >>>>> how > >>>>> a Dragonwave stacks up against competing products. Namely Trango >>>>> in this case. >>>>> >>>>> Exactly how close is "close" when you mention pricing between the >>>>> two products? "Close" is a relative term don't you agree? So, >>>>> are > >>>>> we talking $5, $50, $500, $5000? >>>>> >>>>> Look forward to your responses. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Brad >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:25 PM >>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>>> >>>>> Well... >>>>> >>>>> I'd be happy to quote you a Dragonwave link... I think you will be >>>>> surprised how close it comes to the Trango pricing... and I think >>>>> the performance is much better (I don't want to rehash that whole >> thread). >>>>> >>>>> We also will take care of all of the licensing work for you. >>>>> >>>>> Hit me offlist if you like. >>>>> >>>>> Daniel White >>>>> 3-dB Networks >>>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Niemantsverdriet >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:08 AM >>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>>>> >>>>>> I am looking for a good place to get an 18ghz link, where do you >> guys >>> >>>>>> suggest. Ideally the company would also procure the licence for > us. >> I >>> >>>>>> am thinking I want the Trango APEX because of it cost / > performance. >>>>>> So if anybody has suggestions on a good company to use I am all >> ears! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> _ >>>>>> /-\ ndrew >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> -- >> - >>>>>> - >>>> - >>>>> - >>>>>> -------- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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