OK, fair question.....Two answers....
1) Modify question/thread to ask.....
a) How to get two 2.4Ghz radars operational on MT433
b) How to get two 5.8Ghz cards operational on MT433
2) This is R&D in development. Problem 1 is getting two cards to
not-interfere in a SBC like MT433 on same band. Problem 2 is determinig if
Atheros Wifi cards are possible to make DFS complient, and if MT433 type SBC
hardware are viable models for DFS compliance. Problem 3 is can MT software
be re-written to legally support DFS? If all 3 problem questions eventually
get answered, you will find that many people will be willing to legally
certify the product solutions, and start mass usage of them legally. But
you have to start somewhere, one problem at a time.
If you wanted to be all high and mighty on compliance, and beieve the
problems will never be solved via 802.11a and software, why not just lobby
to stop the manufacturing of all mPCI cards that include support for
5.3-5.4G spectrum, and stiffle innovation?
The way I see it is... Spectrum is to valuable to waste it's optimal
performance, and therefore not interested in deploying gear that compromises
quality and potential of the deployment. If two radios can't co-exist well,
we are better off eating the expense to deploy individual single radio
systems, and not waste our time further. But if multi-card systems can
operate optimally, by building them in an optimal way, well then there is a
basis to continue this R&D exploration to make a better system, and
eventually certify it.
What I don't like doing is just sitting here waiting years for manufacturers
to never built the "ultimate product".
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Carullo" <[email protected]>
To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] using multiple 5.3 cards in a Mikrotik
>
> Just a dumb question...
>
> If DFS is not certified on MT and is required for 5.3 operation how could
> you drum up support for planning something illegal?
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:40 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
>> Subject: [WISPA] using multiple 5.3 cards in a Mikrotik
>>
>> I have read numerous discussions on problems regarding self interference
>
>> between two mPCI cards inserted in the same SBC, on same Freqs. Some
>> reporting need for 40Mhz of center channel seperation.
>>
>> These are the factors...
>> U.FL vs MMCX connectors
>> One vs two Antenna Ports on a single mpci card (for example will second
>
>> unused antenna port on card without pigtail hear noise. Does the second
> port
>> need to be terminated?)
>> Proximity of mPCI slots to each other. (ADI/Lucaya side by side versus MT
>
>> 433 Stacked)
>> High power embedded amped vs low power cards.
>> Software thresholds vs not (min and max receive threshold and adapative
>> noise immunity)
>> Bleed over at card versus bleed over at antenna. (polarity won't help at
>
>> card's port)
>> Interference from Antenna port RF vs internal electronics generated RF
> noise
>> (used to see this in PCs if HDD were to close to MB)
>> One manufacturer's card vs another's.
>> Receiver overload vs interference
>>
>> Unsubstantiated guestimates about this topic won;t really help because
> there
>> are a LOT of variables contributing to the problem.
>>
>> MT433 or equivellent will most like work excellent if each card has a
>> different freq such as 2.4, 5.8, and 900. Unless the problem is Receiver
>
>> Overload. Where in that case maybe 2 CM9s could work better even if both
> on
>> adjacent channel 5.3? If interference is based on Antenna placement, well
>
>> thats easilly controllable by a field tech at time of installation. But
> what
>> I'm concerned about is knowing that the radio system itself is made to be
>
>> non-ninterfering internally. From a remote management perspective, its
> going
>> to be painful tracking which radio systems have to be how far apart in
>> channels to not interfere troubleshooting on-the-fly, without some
> baseline
>> stats defined a head of time.
>>
>> So this brings me to three questions of higher relevence.....
>>
>> 1) What do we need to do to guarantee that two cards can co-exist and be
>
>> used on adjacenet channels without interference at the radio card
> hardware
>> level (not including antenna placement factors that could allow
> intference)
>>
>> 2) Has anyone actually used a Spectrum Analyzer or Noise meter to
> actually
>> measure the RF bleed between to mounted cards? With accurate results of
> what
>> the interference levels are?
>>
>> 3) Would WISP members be interested in contributing to a small fund to
> pay
>> someone to actually accurately measure the results for us?
>>
>> I'd like to specifically know for the 433 board. If using the higher
> quality
>> MMCX w/ single antenna port cards (MT brand card), will 10Mhz of channel
>
>> seperation be enough, to get two 5.3Ghz channels operating correctly?
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Eje Gustafsson" <[email protected]>
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] is this router overloaded?
>>
>>
>> > And 5.2 is not allowed for outdoor usage. So Franks unit is an indoor
> unit
>> > I
>> > would suspect he is suffering from multipath reflections.
>> >
>> > Besides on the radar stuff.. The way DFS is designed in MT it will
> never
>> > be
>> > able to get certified. First of it must continuously look for and
> detect
>> > radar not just when it first enable the interface. Secondly it at least
>
>> > did
>> > a horrible job in actually detecting radar signatures.
>> >
>> > Besides 5.2 is not part of the band you can use even with a certified
>> > radar
>> > detecting device.
>> >
>> > / Eje
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> On
>> > Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - LTI
>> > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 3:32 PM
>> > To: WISPA General List
>> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] is this router overloaded?
>> >
>> > Part of the 5.2 band. All of the radar patters are in MT, just not
>> > certified.
>> >
>> > * -----------------------------------------------------------
>> > Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> > WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> > Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> > WISPA Vendor Member*
>> > *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> > <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> > */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> > <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>> >
>> > The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
>> > Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended
>
>> > only
>> > for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> > it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material.
>> > Any
>> > review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of
> any
>> > action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other
>
>> > than
>> > the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
>> > received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
> material
>> > from any computer.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Gino Villarini wrote:
>> >> 5180.....hmmm!!!
>> >>
>> >> Not to bust anyones head but you are using an uncertified device on
> an
>> >> illegal channel
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my Motorola Startac...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Apr 20, 2009, at 3:20 PM, "Josh Luthman"
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Gino - Top right corner.
>> >>>
>> >>> Did the CPU just jump or has it casually been like that?
>> >>>
>> >>> I've never had 5 radios in any board, I don't know if that would
>> >>> cause a lot
>> >>> of usage or not. Most any MT box I've seen is <5% CPU. A lot of
>> >>> NAT as was
>> >>> mentioned would be the first place I'd look.
>> >>>
>> >>> Josh Luthman
>> >>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> >>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> >>> 1100 Wayne St
>> >>> Suite 1337
>> >>> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>>
>> >>> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it,
> poorly.
>> >>> --- Henry Spencer
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Kevin Neal <[email protected]>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Is this doing any NAT? Is connection tracking enabled? Do you
>> >>>> have all
>> >>>> unneeded packages disabled? We have a few RB600's out there and
>> >>>> they do
>> >>>> fine for the most part, we don't do any wireless on the 600's and
>> >>>> all of
>> >>>> them have the 564 daughterboard in them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -Kevin Neal
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:wireless-
>> >>>> [email protected]] On
>> >>>> Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:50 PM
>> >>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> >>>> Subject: [WISPA] is this router overloaded?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have a RB600 here that I've taken a screenshot of. No interfaces
>> >>>> are
>> >>>> bridged, everything is routed and I'm noticing some lag in the
>> >>>> traffic that
>> >>>> passes though this device during peak use. I suspect that the 41
>> >>>> RIP routes
>> >>>> might have something to do with it as actual throughput isn't that
>> >>>> much
>> >>>> sometimes topping out around 8Mbps. Just want to hear from others
>> >>>> and if
>> >>>> there is any suggestions on how I might speed this up let me know.
>> >>>> CPU
>> >>>> usage
>> >>>> on it is around 40-50%.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> >>>> WAVELINC
>> >>>> P.O. Box 126
>> >>>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> >>>> 419-562-6405
>> >>>> www.wavelinc.com
>> >>>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
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