Really nice article Marlon. Thanks for sharing. No date, when did you write that?
At 09:25 AM 10/19/2009, you wrote: >It's probably just blind luck. The yagi may have it's side lobes in a >different place. > >Also, look at some of the antenna patterns here: >http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.htm > >They are all different. But the worst ones to use, by far, are grids. >marlon > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mike" <[email protected]> >To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:48 PM >Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... > > > > Yabut, a dish "concentrates the forward radiation." So does a > > panel, a slot antenna, and many others. I just wondered why you > > thought a Yagi solved your problem. A 2.4G yagi has large diameter > > elements compared to wavelength, not like the old VHF Yagi's, but are > > prone to icing in the winter up north. What magic did you find in > > the Yagi? Just curious. > > > > "Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!" Ricky Ricardo > > > > > > > > > > At 09:31 PM 10/18/2009, you wrote: > >>Because yagi antenna concentrates the forward radiation and > >>response. -Lucy :) > >> > >>On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Mike <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Rick: > >> > > >> > Why did it solve the problem? Better side lobe attenuation? 'Splain > >> > Lucy. > >> > > >> > Mike > >> > > >> > At 08:42 PM 10/18/2009, you wrote: > >> >>I fixed a nasty multipath issue for one of my subs by using a yagi. > >> >>Here are some good sources for info: > >> >>http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/1121691 > >> >>www.crystalcomltd.com/...whitepapers/124102032509Berkeley_Multipath.pdf > >> >>http://www.rfengineer.net/1171/rf-basics-multipath/ > >> >>http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk722/tk809/technologies_tech_note > >> 09186a008019f646.shtml > >> >>-RickG > >> >> > >> >>On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Marlon K. Schafer > >> >><[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > I don't Steve. > >> >> > > >> >> > But think of it like an echo. You get that first, clear > >> signal coming in, > >> >> > laser straight. Then at some point shortly after that you start > >> >> getting the > >> >> > reflections. If there are too many of them, and/or they are > >> at the wrong > >> >> > time the radio will get confused. > >> >> > > >> >> > G SHOULD handle this better than B. It's made to use > >> multipath's echoes to > >> >> > reassemble a complete message. Sometimes it works that way, > >> sometimes it > >> >> > doesn't. > >> >> > > >> >> > I'd have to say, for me, g is usually better with multipath > >> than b though. > >> >> > B handles interference better. At least that's what I'm > >> seeing. I have a > >> >> > tower that was giving 1 meg down 2 to 3 up, almost all customers > >> >> saw that or > >> >> > worse. Swapped back to b mode only and it's now a consistent > >> 4 megs both > >> >> > ways. > >> >> > > >> >> > Another thing to try is to turn down the power. Probably on > >> both ends. If > >> >> > you are at -69 see if you can drop your ap by 5 then 5 more > >> db. Make sure > >> >> > to drop the cpe by the same amount. What you are trying to do > >> is move the > >> >> > echo down so far that it can't be "heard". > >> >> > > >> >> > I've also had installs that are happiest about 2' above the ground! > >> >> > > >> >> > Here's a fun one for you. I've got one customer that shoots > >> near a grain > >> >> > elevator. Most of the year he works fine, but near harvest, > >> >> every year, his > >> >> > performance goes out the window. It seems that the wheat in the > >> >> elevator is > >> >> > moved out and the empty elevator is worse than the full one. > >> >> > > >> >> > Out here we have VERY long links. I have one at 18 > >> >> miles. PTMP. Yet there > >> >> > are also customers within 1 mile. 10 to 15 mile links are common > >> >> > place. > >> >> > Multipath is a real head ache as the ground conditions > >> change. Customer's > >> >> > service will be perfect, until it snows. Or until they > >> harvest a field, or > >> >> > the ground dries out, or it rains etc. > >> >> > > >> >> > Fortunately MOST of the time this isn't an issue. But when it > >> does hit ya, > >> >> > it can be very hard to figure out. > >> >> > > >> >> > One other thing you might want to try with your customer, turn > >> the radio to > >> >> > the wrong polarity. You are very close to the tower so you should > >> >> > still > >> >> > have enough signal. I've not had to do this very often, but > >> it's a little > >> >> > trick that has worked before. I've also pointed them 180* the > >> >> wrong way and > >> >> > had that work very well, especially with a grid. > >> >> > > >> >> > Let us know if anything helps. > >> >> > marlon > >> >> > > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> > From: "Steve Barnes" <[email protected]> > >> >> > To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > >> >> > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 7:07 AM > >> >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >> Marlon, DO you have or know of a good white paper on > >> Multipath issues? I > >> >> >> agree with your assessment but I have several locations that I have > >> >> >> not > >> >> >> been able to resolve Multipath for. I had an installation last > >> >> >> week 3 > >> >> >> miles from tower AP. Clear line of site other than going over the > >> >> >> Neighbors Metal barn and between 4 metal grain bins. We could > >> get a -69 On > >> >> >> 50% of the property but retries were 98% No matter where we > >> tried High-Low > >> >> >> left right. 100 yards either way on the road and <10% retries and > >> >> >> a -65 > >> >> >> signal. I just need to some documentation to solidify my > >> understanding. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Steve Barnes > >> >> >> Manager > >> >> >> PCS-WIN > >> >> >> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through > >> experience > >> >> >> of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision > >> >> >> cleared, > >> >> >> ambition inspired, and success achieved. > >> >> >> - Helen Keller > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> From: [email protected] > >> >> >> [mailto:[email protected]] On > >> >> >> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer > >> >> >> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:45 AM > >> >> >> To: WISPA General List > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Is that a bigger or smaller antenna size than what you have now? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> If you moved up by 10' and increased your signal levels, what > >> 1000% or so, > >> >> >> I'd REALLY say that this is looking like a multipath issue. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Often with multipath I've seen the signals hold well but > >> performance suck. > >> >> >> It'll sometimes kill the signal though. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I had one install that has some power lines in the way. Fought > >> >> >> intermittent > >> >> >> outages etc. for over a year. His signal was OK, but not > >> great. Finally > >> >> >> something changes a bit and his signal dropped too low. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Hmmm, bad radio. So I pulled his radio out and put in a brand new > >> >> >> one, > >> >> >> still crappy signal. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Double hmmmmm > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I put the old radio back in, left it off the mount and moved > >> it around to > >> >> >> see what would happen. (I always leave 6 to 10' of cable on the > >> >> >> mount > >> >> >> just > >> >> >> for things like this.) > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Triple hmmmmm > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Move the radio to the west 6' and DOWN 2' and he's got great > >> >> >> signal, > >> >> >> faster > >> >> >> speeds than ever and is happy as a clam. Now one of my biggest > >> >> >> PITA > >> >> >> customers just never calls anymore. It was a very amazing > >> transformation > >> >> >> to > >> >> >> his service. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Again, there were some powerlines *close* to the path but not in > >> >> >> it. > >> >> >> Things > >> >> >> actually looked pretty good to me. But not to the radio. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Your symptoms look like multipath to me. We don't see it's effect > >> >> >> very > >> >> >> often, the systems handle it quite well today. But when it hits it > >> >> >> can > >> >> >> hit > >> >> >> hard. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> laters, > >> >> >> marlon > >> >> >> > >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> >> From: "Mark McElvy" <[email protected]> > >> >> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > >> >> >> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:50 AM > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> Well before moving to the current setup, I originally had a > >> >> >>> CPQ-19, 10 > >> >> >>> ft lower. It had a -80 with the same result and I was seeing a lot > >> >> >>> of > >> >> >>> retries. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >>> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On > >> >> >>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer > >> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:30 PM > >> >> >>> To: WISPA General List > >> >> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Change from b to g or g to be mode. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Turn your power WAY down. That's way too hot of a signal. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Any metal, trees, houses, power lines etc. anywhere near the > >> >> >>> signal > >> >> >>> path? > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> This looks a LOT like multipath. > >> >> >>> marlon > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> >>> From: "Mark McElvy" <[email protected]> > >> >> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > >> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 2:30 PM > >> >> >>> Subject: [WISPA] New install driving me crazy.... > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>> Installing a new customer, Tranzeo CPQ-19 to a MT AP, -60 signal > >> >> >>> up/dn, > >> >> >>>> -102 noise. About half the time I don't get name resolution and > >> >> >>>> can't > >> >> >>>> browse pages. This happens with two different radios. It is kind > >> >> >>>> of > >> >> >>>> acting like I am loosing routing or something. I also notice I > >> >> >>>> will > >> >> >>> get > >> >> >>>> very high ping times sporadically along with drop pings. Best of > >> >> >>>> my > >> >> >>>> knowledge no one else having issue on this AP, about a dozen > >> >> >>>> users. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> Mark McElvy > >> >> >>>> AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >> >>> -------- > >> >> >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> >> >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >> >>> -------- > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> >> >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >> >>> -------- > >> >> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> >> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> >> >>> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >> >>> -------- > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> >> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> >> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> >> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> > >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> > >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> > > >> >> > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > >> >> > > >> >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> >> > > >> >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -------------- > >> >>WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> >>http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -------------- > >> >> > >> >>WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > >> >> > >> >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> >> > >> >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > >> > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > >> > > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > > >> > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > >>WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > >> > >>WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > >> > >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >WISPA Wants You! Join today! >http://signup.wispa.org/ >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
