Just taking issue with the "I was charged $8 for two Tylenol", "I was charged $10 for a Tylenol". A beer in a bar (with far less overhead) is $5.
Isn't the fact that if one doesn't have insurance the hospitals work with you at the very least go to show that the folks providing us healthcare aren't the cold hearted money grabbing parasites some pushing for healthcare reform (I mean people I know and people I hear on TV, not pointing fingers at anyone here on the list) try to claim they are? I know of examples where patients couldn't afford the meds so the pharmaceutical company donated them, or a friend (who's a missionary in the jungle and not much money) who's daughter ran up a $500,000 bill being on a special life support device which the company itself helped pay for and the rest was covered by grants. Our system is not as "broken" as some want to make it out to be. Many of the uninsured are uninsured by choice or illegals. I live in Venezuela and I am covered by their free system there (though if it matters and one has the money people go to the paid clinics) BUT I'M NOT THERE ILLEGALLY. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. > Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children > that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. > They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was > charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not > have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. > There were no complications in either case. > > I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 > for 1 Tylenol. > > So something smells awful fishy here. > > Scottie > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Brad Belton" <b...@belwave.com> > Reply-To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org> > Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 > >> The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where >> insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to >> all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and >> prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't >> seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. >> >> Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will >> discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single >> payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided >> will go down. >> >> Without competition I see this as the only outcome. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Paul C Diem >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >> >> Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded >> program will do. >> >> Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets >> me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: >> >> 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the >> insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free >> enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging >> a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a >> competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great >> $75 billion/year? >> >> 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health >> care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. >> How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free >> enterprises in any industry? >> >> Paul C Diem >> pcd...@foxvalley.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of RickG >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >> >> >> I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and >> not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. >> I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our >> health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not >> to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up >> there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I >> had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live & >> kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want >> any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why >> it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of >> mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our >> health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. >> -RickG >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott <rsp...@cspott.com> wrote: >> >>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care >>> system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. >>> If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or >>> want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private >>> services." >>> >>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I >>> am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the >>> poor-house. >>> >>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients >>> (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to >>> the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on >>> someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to >>> a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the >>> financial burden of going to the >>> hospital. >>> >>> I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever >>> those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy >>> extra insurance >>> riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on >>> top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. >>> >>> Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for >>> vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to "pay that >>> extra tax" to drive your car? >>> >>> Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much... >>> >>> ryan >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke >>> <nstooke...@wisperisp.com >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that >>>> started WedMD years back. He was starting another company that >>>> worked with the insurance flow of paper work. He said several times >>>> that 70% to 80% of >>> the >>>> insurance premiums we pay go to the "middle" man and not to pay for >>>> the doctors services. >>>> >>>> My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health >>>> care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private >>>> healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in >>>> huge lines or want to >>> go >>>> to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:22 AM >>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >>>> >>>> Yes, we in South Florida have some of the highest insurance rates >>>> (all types of insurance). There are many reasons, non of them that >>>> make a great deal of >>>> sense to me, but I have heard all kinds of excuses... >>>> >>>> The original point was, >>>> Health Care Insurance is a necessity. >>>> Health Care Insurance should be a vital benefit, provided by an >>> Employer >>>> whenever possible. >>>> Health Care Insurance is expensive.... >>>> >>>> So, How do you set up this benefit so that it makes sense for all >>>> (Employer and Employee). >>>> >>>> There are a number of very effective ways to do this, rather than >>>> the drastic options to convert Employees to Contractors... >>>> >>>> BTW, if you Talk to you Accountant, they will also tell you that >>>> simply paying someone on a 1099 as a Contractor, does not make them >>>> a contract employee.... There are other 'litmus' tests used to >>>> determine the exact status, in-case someone challenges the status >>>> quo. >>>> >>>> >>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>> Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net >>>> Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Travis Johnson >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 11:06 PM >>>> To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance >>>> >>>> Ahhhh... now we know.... it's Florida that is causing everyone >>>> else's insurance rates to go up... :) >>>> >>>> We pay about $700/month to cover an entire family (this is just >>>> health insurance, the dental and vision is extra). >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> Microserv >>>> >>>> Faisal Imtiaz wrote: >>>>> As a business owner, in Florida, where the Health Insurance is one >>>>> of the highest in the US, we have seeing 15-20% increses every >>>>> year for the last few years. >>>>> >>>>> It is nice to see that you offer 100% health insurance coverage >>>>> for all of your Employees, where the company is picking up the Tab >>>>> for the Insurance Premiums. >>>>> >>>>> Simply for the sake of my understanding, why would you choose to >>>>> >>>>> " force us to go to a subcontractor type work-force (at least for >>>>> 5-10 of our current employees) to get us under the 25 employee >>>>> limit >>> and >>>> ..... " >>>>> offer less benefits for everyone in the company " >>>>> >>>>> At the end of the day, $412 / employee is not a whole lot of >>>>> money, especially when you are talking about a benfit like Health >>>> Insurance....... >>>>> If you are looking to have some means of off-setting the >>>>> additional $$$, would'nt it me easier and better for everyone if >>>>> you reduced your Company provided 100% coverage to let's say 90%, >>>>> and have the Employee pay the other 10% ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What are your current costs for Health Insurnace ? We are seeing >>>> typically >>>>> $300-$400 / month for a single male, and $1300-$1450 /month for a >>>>> family >>>>> >>>>>> From what we have been seeing in the last few years, including >>>>>> our present >>>>> coverage increase (approx $8100/year for 3 families)... $412 /year >>>>> increase would be a Blessing and a Christmas present... >>>>> >>>>> ------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Just a thought. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>>> Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net >>>>> Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of Travis Johnson >>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:50 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: [WISPA] health insurance >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> What are everyone else's plans if this new health insurance plan >>>>> gets passed in Congress? We fall in the 25-100 employee category, >>>>> so they are estimating our health insurance costs would go up $412 >>>>> per employee for us (we already cover 100% of the costs for our >>>>> employees). So, basically this would force us to go to a >>>>> subcontractor type work-force (at least for 5-10 of our current >>>>> employees) to get us under the 25 employee limit and offer less >>>>> benefits for everyone in the >>>> company. >>>>> >>>>> Once again, it seems our government is stepping in where it >>>>> doesn't >>>> belong. >>>>> Either take over the health care system 100% (including funding >>>>> it), or leave it alone. >>>>> >>>>> Travis >>>>> Microserv >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> ------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> ---------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ---------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ------ >>>> ---- >>>> WISPA Wants You! 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