History should be a guide; not a box. Our country has proven that our system of government and its attitude towards the free market is unmatched by any other system of government past or present. However, multinational corporations are something new that our system is having a hard time with. This is because a perfect capitalist is a monopolist and monopolies destroy innovation, which is the heart of our country's success.
Healthcare is tough because it allows for so many straw-man arguments that real debate is lost in the noise. Further, healthcare is now a global concern, so the actions of other nations impact our own. What I would like to see is a real debate that leads to a solution. Businesses simply can't sustain the increasing cost of healthcare and neither can their employees. Right now we have the scariest of all worlds whether you are a liberal or a conservative. People without healthcare aren't healthy and cost us all too much. Doctors have to employ more people to deal with insurance company bureaucracy than to actually provide healthcare. Further, as a percentage of GDP we spend the most and get the least. -Matt On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:29 AM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: > Owen, > > I think maybe what you're missing is the historical perspective. > Our history is people left Europe which was mostly feudal with kings > and rulers dictating the details of people's lives and these people > came here to be free. Collaboration is needed so the whole can > exceed what the mere individual is capable of but as is evident in > the constitution the founding fathers were trying to have just > enough, just the bare minimum of government needed to all that to > happen. That's why according to the constitution the federal > government's roll is only supposed to involve national security and > interstate commerce. > > At one point in time the US government felt it was necessary in > order to provide good telephone communications to force there to be > only one national telephone company (the streets were getting > cluttered with wires and clearly none of the little companies would > ever cover the entire nation). Some years later the government felt > it was necessary to break up that telecommunications company (the > divestiture) and allow competition in those markets. Both decisions > were right at the time. > > Certain aspects of socialism have merit and if you exclude a few > totalitarian regimes no socialist country is purely socialist > without any private property or capitalism, and all mainly > capitalist countries have some social programs. > > So it comes down to how much is right. Most people feel we need > Medicare, VA hospitals and other things you mention below (we're a > compassionate people though the majority would say those things need > fixing) but it's a big leap from a medical system which takes care > of the elderly and honored veterans to a healthcare system for > everyone. And from what I've heard (I watch Glen Beck and Jon > Stewart so I know I'm getting both sides) there's some language in > the government's proposals which clearly makes their thing an > "option". It sounds more like "an offer you can't refuse" when they > say you can only keep your current private insurance if you don't > make any changes or else you default to the government system. What > the majority of Americans want is freedom even if it's dangerous > (think 2nd amendment). > > Greg > > On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Owen Harrell wrote: > >> I keep reading what everyone is saying about government and >> insurance, but I don't really believe you. Most of you say that you >> are >> against the government getting involved in health care, that it is a >> Socialist idea. What I haven't heard is any of you saying you >> wanted to stop >> Medicare or Social Security or shut down the VA hospitals. Why not? >> These >> are Socialist programs. These are Government run programs with no >> choice to >> purchase it from the private market. Why haven't you said to stop >> those >> programs? You say you believe in the Free Market, but I do not see >> you >> asking to stop regulating electricity, or natural gas. Only if we >> let these >> companies truly charge whatever they wanted to would it be a free >> market. >> Most of you claim to be Christians, but you do not really believe >> what you >> preach. A true Christian always wants to help those that are less >> fortunate >> than yourself. Well I believe that includes health care. Or does it >> mean you >> can pick and choose who should be helped and who shouldn't. Yes, I >> have had >> insurance almost my whole life. Some was paid for by my employer, >> some has >> been paid for by myself. What I have seen is premiums go up every >> year. >> However, the health of this nation ranks in the 30's among other >> nations. We >> live 3-7 years less than countries with health care. Does that mean >> National >> Health Care will be perfect? I do not think so. That would be like >> me asking >> you if your Wireless was up 100% of the time. You would have to >> either say >> no, or lie to me. I do not believe there is such a thing as >> perfect, but if >> you never try to achieve perfection, you sure as hell will never >> come close >> to reaching it. I also notice how everyone seems to know how the >> government >> will run Health Care and what is being done wrong. How do you know >> these >> things when there is not even a completed bill in the Senate yet? >> Last I >> knew, they were still debating what should and what shouldn't be a >> part of >> it. Some say we should throw the bill in the Senate away, and start >> over. >> Maybe they should have been there when it started. These are the >> congressmen >> you should be pissed at. They elected not to participate in the >> beginning, >> and now want to cry foul and ask to start over. These are just my >> two cents >> on the subject, and because you are still in America, you have the >> right to >> disagree, not read this at all and delete it, or respond. Well, I >> guess if >> you have read the last line, you now only have two choices left, >> hurry and >> decide before there is only one left. >> >> Owen Harrell >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >> boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Paul C Diem >> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:26 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance.... >> >> Yup, in the past century, America stopped being the land of >> opportunity and >> became the land of guarantees. >> >> Paul C Diem >> pcd...@foxvalley.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >> boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:39 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance.... >> >> >> Oh boy, here we go. >> >> Even more important is water and food. How about electricity, >> transportation, entertainment etc. etc. etc. >> >> NOTHING is a basic human right past opportunity. The CHANCE to >> make our >> own direction is all that God has given us. >> marlon >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David E. Smith" <d...@mvn.net> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:50 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance.... >> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 18:06, RickG <rgunder...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not >>>> truly >>>> run >>>> in a "free market". It's "failure" is exactly due to this. Even >>>> after all >>>> the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have >>>> "access" >>>> to health care? >>>> >>> >>> I suppose we're taking fundamentally different approaches to the >>> issue >>> of health care. I don't see it as one that can (or should) be solved >>> by the free market - as far as I'm concerned, it's a fundamental >>> human >>> right. No person, anywhere on this planet, should have to worry >>> about >>> things like "money" when it comes to basic health and wellness. The >>> fact that even one American (or anyone else really, but this is a >>> US-centric list) doesn't, in my mind represents a deep-rooted >>> failure >>> of the free market, and of basic human kindness and compassion. >>> >>> David Smith >>> MVN.net >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> WISPA Wants You! 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Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! 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