What's great about the commercial insurers, is that if you're not happy with how one company is ran, you can move to another. Just like if someone doesn't like Comcast's customer service or Verizon's service options, they can choose me for service. Just think if Qwest was everyone's sole Internet provider. There are no other commercial based first world countries I can move to (rescinding my US citizenship) to free myself of the burden of socialist healthcare.
Having private options in a public world means you're paying for your healthcare twice. It's like being forced to have Qwest DSL, but electing to have FiOS instead. You're paying for 2 Internet services, one great and the other not. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "George Morris" <ghmor...@candlelight.ca> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:57 PM To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance.... > I'd like to make a quick comment about single payer. > > Its generally painted as being a great socialist evil in the US. > > That's not quite true, although there are bound to be instances where its > abused, just like there are lots of instances where commercial insurers > deny > coverage or limit treatment options. It is often said that single payer > means you have no treatment options and your choice of providers is > limited. > > Not true here. In fact, no even close. I had a brush with prostate cancer > three years ago. I did the normal research we all would, picked out the > treatment I thought I wanted, and picked out the surgeon I wanted just > like > you hopefully could. Went to Toronto for a consult with the Head of > Urology > at Toronto General who has one of the best reps in the Province, we worked > out a treatment plan, I went to Toronto for surgery performed by him and > I've had a clean bill of health for the last couple of years. I had my > choice of practitioners, although some would require longer waits than > others, had my choice of hospitals, and had my choice of treatments. Hard > to > ask for much more really. > > The other reality is that single payer takes some pressure off "treatment > by > next-quarter profit numbers", where the insurers have to answer to their > shareholders on a very short-term basis. Insurance companies are after all > in business to make money, and western business culture demands great > numbers month after month, quarter after quarter and year after year. > > As a result, no private insurance company is in a position to take the > long > view about anything. If they did their CEO would get lynched. > > One of the huge benefits of single payer that often gets lost in the > rhetoric is the ability for the payer (the government) to take a much > longer > view of benefits to public health. > > Let me give you another personal example. I've had a serious weight > problem > since I was a kid. Got to the point five years ago that I weighed 300 lbs, > and I'm only 5' 8". Tried all the diets etc, but got heavier every year. > > I went looking for alternatives, and found a pretty good one with a > bariatric surgery program with the Centres for Laparoscopic Obesity > Surgery > run by Dr. Rutledge and available in a number of centres in the US. Very > good reputation, lower risks than normal and terrific five year results > for > taking weight off and keeping it off. > > There was no equivalent program available at the time in Ontario. They are > working hard to create one now, but it takes time. > > So I worked with my GP, and we submitted an application to OHIP (Ontario > Hospital Insurance Plan), the single payer for the province. Detailed what > the problem was, what the future health risks were, what the surgery was > going to cost and what we expected to gain from it. > > Took a bit to get it approved, but approve it they did because of the > typical $2M plus lifetime cost of a patient with morbid obesity. Diabetes, > cardiac issues etc. > > Had the surgery, lost nearly 150 lbs and I've now been stable at 155 for > coming up on four years. Pretty damn cool. > > Went for the surgery in Michigan at Bay City. Caught a fairly unpleasant > case of pneumonia in the hospital, so ended up with a ten days longer than > planned stay. OHIP covered everything. No deductable at all. Came to > $42,000US which isn't chump change, but my quality of life is immeasurably > higher now. > > The point is, about 70% of US patients are denied coverage from their > insurers for this procedure. Most have to dig up the $17,000 base cost out > of their hip pockets, or do without and become a huge burden later due to > very high future costs down the road. Not to mention shortened lives, > lousy > quality of life and so forth. > > Single payer can mean better opportunities for preventative care at all > levels, not just checkups at your GP. For one I'm very grateful, it made a > big difference to my life. > > George > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:13 PM > To: 'Tom Sharples'; 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance.... > > Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever > industry we might have left) who puts "profit" in healthcare. As you > stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything > they can find to do that. > > Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see > working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying > for > it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white > north > said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in > taxes. > > Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Sharples > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance.... > > One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, > as > > currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider selling ISP > services under the model of "broadband insurance." Under that model, your > customer would pay you a certain amount per month in case he needs > broadband, and you would do your best to find reasons to deny him access. > Or > > how about "housing insurance" instead of monthly rent. You pay the > landlord > a certain amount every month in case you need shelter and he > oversubscribes > a number of his units and hires guards to keep people out on various > pretexts. Sound completely ridiculous, yet unless you're in an HMO like > Kaiser that's the system we have now. > > What we need is universal (private or public) access to medical care, > healthy lifestyle incentives, and the elimination of stupid laws that only > serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US > consumers, restrict free-market access across state and international > lines,create incentives toward excess consumption and CYA medical > pratices, > and only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription > drugs > to US consumers. > > Tom S. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RickG" <rgunder...@gmail.com> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:06 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance.... > > >> Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly >> run >> in a "free market". It's "failure" is exactly due to this. Even after all >> the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have >> "access" >> to health care? >> >> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM, David E. Smith <d...@mvn.net> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 16:42, MDK <rea...@muddyfrogwater.us> wrote: >>> >>> > The free market really does work. We use it daily in our business... >>> > Now >>> >>> imagine if we used it for health care, too. We know how to do that, >>> don't >>> > we? >>> >>> >>> There is a fundamental difference between broadband Internet and basic >>> medical care, and the fact that tens of millions of Americans have >>> better >>> access to the former than the latter shows that in this instance the >>> free >>> market has failed miserably. >>> >>> David Smith >>> MVN.net >>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> WISPA Wants You! 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