FYI: Pat does know this industry inside & out. In my book, he has
earned the right to toot his horn. I'm certain others in the industry
will vouch for him as well. Many have come & gone on this list so
we're fortunate to have him still around. I've been on the list since
'04 and have learned a lot from his posts and from others here. Stick
with the facts and we'll all learn a thing or two. I'm still on two :)
-RickG

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Patrick Leary <ple...@apertonet.com> wrote:
> My point stands Ruben; thanks for making it for me further. You are referring 
> to a licensed frequency of 3.5 GHz. I am referring to quasi (really 
> unlicensed from a practical standpoint) 3.65 GHz.
>
> I have been around the block a very long time in this business. The rude fact 
> is that the big companies don't care about this small (from a global 
> perspective) U.S. niche band of 3.65 GHz enough to put any money and 
> resources into interoperability. It is not like globally accepted (U.S. not 
> withstanding) licensed 3.5 GHz (which is still a tiny market relative to 
> Wi-Fi) and the even smaller licensed 2.5 GHz in the U.S. (or 2.3 GHz WiBRO in 
> South Korea).
>
> I am well compentent and authoritative enough to speak on this industry far 
> beyond the narrow confines of my company. And as I have been doing since Dec 
> 1999 when I first hit the lists, I will call BS and/or clarify market 
> misunderstanding when I see it.
>
>
> Patrick Leary
> Aperto Networks
> 813.426.4230 mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:38 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
>
> What you call a total myth (CPE x basestation interopoerability) is something 
> that I actually tested in the field with 3.5 GHz .16e, which is not as 
> popular as 2.3/2.5 WiBro/Clearwire/Yota frequencies.
>
> If Aperto has such interoperability issues, please talk only for Aperto, not 
> for the marketplace.
>
>
> Rubens
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Patrick Leary <ple...@apertonet.com> wrote:
>> Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows 
>> someone to source .16e CPE from any number of "Cheap asian CPEs." That is 
>> one of the most 180 degrees wrong myths.
>>
>> The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its 
>> own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull.
>>
>> What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX 
>> Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) 
>> with it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 3.65 
>> GHz.
>>
>>
>> Patrick Leary
>> Aperto Networks
>> 813.426.4230 mobile
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
>> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
>>
>> What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make 
>> them good products.
>> The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO 
>> and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX 
>> for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along.
>>
>> Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX 
>> world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap 
>> asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d.
>>
>> http://www.purewavenetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Rubens
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Leary <ple...@apertonet.com> wrote:
>>> 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs.
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick Leary
>>> Aperto Networks
>>> 813.426.4230 mobile
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
>>>
>>> Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that.
>>> More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Patrick Leary" <ple...@apertonet.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
>>>
>>>> Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but
>>>> again we default to the "but at what cost" question. We believe this
>>> to
>>>> be especially true in more rural deployments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Patrick Leary
>>>> Aperto Networks
>>>> 813.426.4230 mobile
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
>>>>
>>>> Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt <lm7...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree
>>>>> penetration.
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base
>>>>>> station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better
>>>>>> uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports
>>>>>> about the Moto 320 so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patrick Leary
>>>>>> Aperto Networks
>>>>>> 813.426.4230 mobile
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>>> boun...@wispa.org]
>>>>
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
>>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the new motorola is mimo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt <lm7...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto
>>> Networks
>>>>
>>>>>>>> are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the
>>>>>>>> WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So
>>>>>>>> Aperto Networks -- the
>>>>>>>> 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65
>>> and
>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)
>>>>>>>> PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective
>>>>>>>> immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band
>>> and
>>>>>>>> 17 dbi integrated
>>>>>>>> (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
>>>>>>>> 3.65 GHz
>>>>>>>> with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs
>>> and
>>>>
>>>>>>>> no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one,
>>>>>>>> same price.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>>
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