I'm not saying what we do doesn't work. I'm saying what we do isn't the best.
I was referring to residential or small-business customers. CE or MPLS are for dedicated services. There is no method known to me in the WISP industry to do what I have described, the ability to separate authentication\provisioning and IP address assignment without requiring extra management. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappydsl.net> To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 5:52:21 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Radios as routers i will respectfully disagree......WISP Industry is rather a broad Term... How one provider (WISP or otherwise) sets up their Service DMARC / Delivery of the Service is totally dependent on the WISP and to Whom they are delivering the Service to. If you are saying what you are saying in the context of a Residential Service Provider, there is plenty of proven options on how to define that handoff... If you are talking about Business service providers then the answer can be very different. While this conversation is very interesting, I am thinking about how this applies to us.... We are not delivering Residential Service, and for businesses we do an Ethernet Hand-off, sometimes it is directly off the UBNT Radio, other times we install a Mikrotik Router as the Dmarc. Doing this gives us the the ultimate flexibility to mix and match service for the Customer, even in cases where they are wanting to have L2 Transport and not internet access.. We use EoIP tunnels to accomplish that for them. While it is nice to have an automated system, but keep in mind that automated system and Flexibility are polar opposites. In my Opinion WISP's are specialty providers, and as such have to offer Flexibility... In case of Residential Service ... There are existing documented ways of creating a Walled Garden, and letting the users Register, Cable Industry uses this approach for authenticating the Modems and matching them to a Subscriber Account.. However, I believe that what Fred is talking about is not something that applies fully to Residential Service.... (Remember all Resi BroadBand is classified as best effort, and there is a good reason for it...) While I can understand Fred asking about CE (Carrier Ethernet) showing up in WISP's networks, I am still puzzled as to the need of CE in Radios or Routers... Mikrotiks are routers, and very flexible tools.... There is nothing stopping anyone today to deploy these in combination with CE switches... The question of the day then becomes, is the problem the WISP's face, have to do with the equipment they are using (not having these functionality), or is the problem the WISP, building their network in a Layered approach so that the Common Denominators (of functionality) can be used as a mass provisioning tool.... I personally think that most WISP's want their Radios / devices to do everything in the world for them, and do it extremely well, and do it for a very in-expensive cost. which of course is not reality. Customer Provisioning and Customer management are 'Systems' and not a device or protocol.... AT&T / Comcast / Verizon, have the CPE mfg. write special firmware for them to auto provision the devices, WISP's can accomplish the same or similar using a Systems approach. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 10/19/2012 4:50 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > What we're (well, I am anyway) saying is that the way the WISP industry does > it... is sub-optimal. The customer should be able to supply whatever device > they want, be handed up to a configured maximum number of public IP addresses > (specified per account), but the CPE has managed all account authorization. > The customer should still be permitted to pass 1500 byte packets. The > customer shouldn't have any configuration on their behalf. You know... how > cable does it. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "LTI - Dennis Burgess" <gmsm...@gmail.com> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 1:48:58 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Radios as routers > > > don't know why you would let the customer equipment auth. our network all > auth is done at the CPE that we control. > > > On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Simon Westlake < si...@powercode.com > > wrote: > > > Mike, > > I completely agree and I think it is a goal the WISP industry needs to > work towards - the provisioning of CPE is still a nightmare in > comparison to DOCSIS. PPPoE is not a good solution, IMO - it's arguably > better than nothing but you shouldn't have to rely on the customer > supplied equipment being configured correctly to just auth to the > network - that's the job of the ISP CPE. > > It's not even that hard of a problem to solve in the grand scheme of things. > > > > On 10/13/2012 8:55 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> Well yes it is, but I believe the cable industry has it setup the best. It's >> easy for the end user to BYOD and the ISP remains hand-off. The WISP >> industry makes it difficult to do so. Currently everything I do is NATed at >> the CPE, but I'd like to make that optional, not a requirement. Obviously >> for enterprise\wholesale level connections I do something different, but >> there's too many hands involved to do that for residential at this time. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Faisal Imtiaz" < fai...@snappydsl.net > >> To: "WISPA General List" < wireless@wispa.org > >> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 8:51:50 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Radios as routers >> >> While this is your opinion, others have a different opinion... >> For what is it worth, It would be nice to have Radius attributes for >> provisioning the radio..It currently shows it to be on their todo list. >> As for your other item, I believe DHCP relay is built into the new >> firmware . >> >> As far as NAT is concerned, it has it's place. >> >> Regards. >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, Fl 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net >> >> On 10/12/2012 10:50 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>> I want to see the removal of doing anything other than DHCP to the client's >>> device. The CPE radio pulls it's rate-shaping information from RADIUS and >>> allows any number of DHCP clients on a per-CPE basis to pull a public IP. >>> >>> An ISP doing NAT is just silly. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott Reed" < sr...@nwwnet.net > >>> To: "WISPA General List" < wireless@wispa.org > >>> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 8:16:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Radios as routers >>> >>> >>> NAT at the at a couple of towers, but not at the CPE. >>> >>> >>> On 10/11/2012 6:52 PM, Sam Tetherow wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Not sure I under stand the no-NAT, so every device on the other side of the >>> CPE has it's own public IP? >>> >>> On 10/11/2012 4:53 PM, Scott Reed wrote: >>> >>> >>> We run MT, not UBNT, CPE, but it doesn't matter what brand it is. We run >>> them in as routers, but do not NAT. Same benefits others mentioned for >>> routing, just one fewer NAT. Never have a problem with it this way and >>> can't see any good reason to NAT there. >>> >>> >>> On 10/11/2012 3:46 PM, Arthur Stephens wrote: >>> >>> >>> We currently use Ubiquiti radios in bridge mode and assign a ip address to >>> the customers router. >>> He have heard other wisp are using the Ubiquiti radio as a router. >>> Would like feed back why one would do this when it appears customers would >>> be double natted when they hook up their routers? >>> Or does it not matter from the customer experience? >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wireless mailing list >> Wireless@wispa.org >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> _______________________________________________ >> Wireless mailing list >> Wireless@wispa.org >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless _______________________________________________ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless _______________________________________________ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
