Packet transport (eline,ertree ect) and OAM
Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr From: Mike Hammett <wispawirel...@ics-il.net<mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net>> Reply-To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 at 9:45 AM To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF So then what do you guys think should be the desired functionality, standards, etc. we'd want out of MEF\CE in a WISP "router"? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ________________________________ From: "Daniel White" <daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com<mailto:daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 7:34:45 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF Okay my 2 cents – and I’m largely taking my vendor hat off here. So something to add to the offlist discussion I had with Mike (some Latvian companies have heard of MEF, and already have roadmaped Y.1731 in their Integra radios)… there is A LOT of certifications for MEF… http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications OAM is just one part of the puzzle. I’m sure Mikrotik, just like many manufacturers, could say we are MEF compliant (and we (SAF) already are on things like 9 & 14). Certification costs A LOT of money. Just joining the organization is $15,000 USD annually. So for a WISP focused manufacturer (and Mikrotik isn’t the only router manufacturer focused on WISP’s right?) spending the huge sums without seeing there will be a return (how many people are building OAM into their networks… probably a handful here) isn’t worth the investment. So make it worth the investment. :-) Carrier Ethernet is many things, it’s not just one thing. And what it is has different definitions to different people. Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) or ITU-T (International Telecommunications Union) or IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers) is not a specific thing… but a lot of things. Y.1731 is actually an ITU-T recommendation, similar to IEEE 802.1AG. MEF has an interpretation of Y.1731 included in MEF 17, 30.1, 31, 31.0.1, 35, 35.0.1, 35.0.2, 36, 38, and 39 with test suites 21 and 25. SAF tends to stick to ITU and IEEE certifications. But since MEF develops their recommendations from them, we are usually compliant. An argument could be made that MEF is an organization made up to line the pockets of a small few by charging exorbitant rates to get equipment or networks certified based on standards created by ITU and IEEE. Kinda like a good ol’ boys club (together we set the standard, and I promise I’ll buy a lot after we charge you this large amount of money for “Certification” to block your competition)… Usually on the Tier 1 networks require certification, which happen to be the ones that created MEF to begin with (and also the vendors that tend to be heavily involved). Of course anyone can join MEF and get certification… but the cost barrier to entry is high. My point being – make sure to be specific to any manufacturer what you are asking for. Don’t say “you need carrier Ethernet” or “you need MEF compliance/certification” but instead be specific “I’d like Y.1731 compliance in your equipment.” Point to a specific standard… it helps a lot. Maybe tell them which routerboards specifically need it – some of their hardware probably can’t support it (or at least well). Anyways I promise the inner-core of Mikrotik has heard of MEF. But all manufacturers engineer towards demand (or perceived demand in the case of more visionary ideas) because that is how we make money. I can’t promise everyone in sales, engineering, or tech support at SAF know what MEF is… but I promise the people that work on our Ethernet stack, that work in Ethernet product development (why does an RF engineer need to know what MEF is?), and work in our testing department know. [cid:image001.jpg@01CE2975.BD4B6370] Daniel White | Managing Director SAF North America LLC Cell: (303) 746-3590 Skype: danieldwhite E-mail: daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com<mailto:daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com> SAF Tehnika & Integra Introduction Video –http://youtu.be/xqrXOq4Uzgg Spectrum Compact Introduction Video – http://youtu.be/2GoNP974B4k [cid:40B6B97A-78D8-4322-9584-2247AEDCEC32] <https://www.facebook.com/SAFTehnika> [cid:C62FF935-06DE-41B5-8D9C-6CDF5978E509] <https://twitter.com/SAFTehnika> [cid:A57FE05F-BC56-4980-982F-1E3DA8E28EBE] <http://www.linkedin.com/company/saf-tehnika-jsc> [cid:0F4D1499-0C92-4A56-9097-3F468F84263A] <http://www.youtube.com/user/SAFTehnika> SAF Tehnika JSC www.saftehnika.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF Not the same when you are a router manufacturer… Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.com<http://www.aeronetpr.com> @aeronetpr From: Mike Hammett <wispawirel...@ics-il.net<mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net>> Reply-To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 at 6:05 PM To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com<mailto:supp...@mikrotik.com> ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ________________________________ From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com<mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett <wispawirel...@ics-il.net<mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net>> wrote: They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ________________________________ From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com<mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett <wispawirel...@ics-il.net<mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net>> wrote: E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com _______________________________________________ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless _______________________________________________ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless _______________________________________________ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless _______________________________________________ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless _______________________________________________ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org<mailto:Wireless@wispa.org> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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