Thanks, I'll look at it harder...

On 10/19/04 9:07 AM, "John McGowan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> everything is still going to be running from witango... i have sites
> that use swish-e to do the spidering and indexing of the site, but every
> thing about the presentation of the site still 100% witango.  i just
> call swish-e like any other external action.
> 
> Look at it this way, you could probably write a bunch of Witango code to
> try to simulate the full text searching that would be available by using
> swish-e or a database that has that feature built in, but why would
> you.  The whole reason Witango was made extensible in the first place
> was so that you could leverage third party tools (COM objects,
> JavaBeans, EXE command line programs) to solve problems.
> 
> /John
> 
> Roland Dumas wrote:
> 
>> Hmmmm....
>> Looking at swish-e, it's clear that it's a more powerful approach, but...
>> 
>> If I want to keep life simple and have everything running from witango -
>> even if I won't get all the swish-e bells and whistles, is there a better
>> approach? Or am I hearing that witango isn't really a good tool for this
>> task?
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/19/04 8:15 AM, "Bill Conlon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>> Then, maybe spidering the forum content is the easiest way to do this.
>>> It will let you do free form searching.  The cgi script included with
>>> swish-e will highlight found terms, and let the user apply various
>>> restrictions.
>>> 
>>> The other thing is you don't have to worry about a SQL injection attack.
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, October 19, 2004, at 08:06  AM, Roland Dumas wrote:
>>> 
>>>    
>>> 
>>>> It's a search function for a forum. Dynamic popups won't work here,
>>>> because
>>>> it's a search of subject and content, which would overwhelm a selection
>>>> menu.
>>>> 
>>>> My thoughts were like this:
>>>> 
>>>> User's Search string = first argument
>>>> Search string parsed (by space and comma) and the articles tossed out.
>>>> That
>>>> leaves an array of words within the first argument. The first argument
>>>> and
>>>> the remaning substrings comprise all the OR conditions you want.
>>>> 
>>>> Option 1:
>>>> Generate SQL from a <@ROWS> that just appends a series of OR
>>>> statements to
>>>> the SELECT command.(easiest to do, but least secure)
>>>> 
>>>> Option 2: Write a taf in XML, using the <@ROWS> to create a custom
>>>> <Criteria> section in a temporary taf that is just the search action,
>>>> and
>>>> then call that action with a branch/return. (typos will crash tango
>>>> server -
>>>> venturing into deep unknown)
>>>> 
>>>> Option 3: Do a For loop for each of the substrings and glue all the
>>>> resultsets together (slow and painful)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Then, when you've got the amalgamated found set of records with whole
>>>> string
>>>> or substrings, figure a way to bubble up to the top the whole strings
>>>> or
>>>> items of greater value.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 10/19/04 7:13 AM, "Bill Conlon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>      
>>>> 
>>>>> Full text indexing can be expensive if your application does a lot of
>>>>> inserts/updates into columns that are indexed, but things like the
>>>>> winery/varietal shouldn't be a problem if you want to get it out of
>>>>> the
>>>>> db.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If it's a problem for your users, then maybe you can build a selection
>>>>> list from the available choices.  Or maybe you need something akin
>>>>> auto-complete:  run a javascript keyboard event handler that populates
>>>>> your input field based on the characters typed so far.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tuesday, October 19, 2004, at 06:59  AM, John McGowan wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>        
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Don't some newer databases have full text indexing now.  (I believe
>>>>>> MSSQL calls the feature "Full-Text Search")
>>>>>> Wouldn't the best solution be to use a database that supports that
>>>>>> type of searching?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If this functionality isn't available to you in your DB then I would
>>>>>> suggest you still use swish-e like Bill suggests...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1. create a "dummy site" that will have a unique page for every
>>>>>> record
>>>>>> in the table that you're looking for.
>>>>>>   www.mysite.com/dbindex/main.taf
>>>>>> 2. when you hit main.taf it generates a link to each record in the
>>>>>> table you care about
>>>>>>   www.mysite.com/dbindex/main.taf?id=xxxxx
>>>>>>   www.mysite.com/dbindex/main.taf?id=yyyyy
>>>>>>   www.mysite.com/dbindex/main.taf?id=zzzzzz
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (if you're familiar with witango this should take you about 5 minutes
>>>>>> to accomplish)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 3. Tell swish-e to index the site by hitting the initial main.taf
>>>>>> url.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 4. now when you want to do a full text search of the table, you call
>>>>>> swish-e's searching functionality.  it will return a list of the
>>>>>> matching entries.
>>>>>>   www.mysite.com/dbindex/main.taf?id=aaaaa
>>>>>>   www.mysite.com/dbindex/main.taf?id=bbbbb
>>>>>>   www.mysite.com/dbindex/main.taf?id=cccccc
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 5. Of course at this point you know that if you strip out the
>>>>>> "www.mysite.com/dbindex/main.taf?id="  You will have the part of the
>>>>>> url that you care about, the aaaaa,bbbbb,ccccc  which should be in a
>>>>>> ranked order, and now you can do with that information whatever you
>>>>>> want.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 6. Schedule the re running of step 3. at some interval that satisfies
>>>>>> your need for accuracy vs. performance.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Of course this all assumes you're doing this for 1 particular table.
>>>>>> However, if you had more than 1 table you could still do it all by
>>>>>> adding a little more code to your main.taf and some more logic to the
>>>>>> part that stripps the url to get the important part.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> /John
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Roland Dumas wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>          
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But, we're talking about a search of a database.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 10/18/04 5:59 PM, "Bill Conlon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Roland,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You've heard this from me before on this list.  Take a look at
>>>>>>>> swish-e.
>>>>>>>> You could use its built-in spider to index your site, and then use
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> built-in cgi-script to highlight your results.  It's really a great
>>>>>>>> piece of software.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Now if you take the swish-e approach, here's what I would do to
>>>>>>>> solve
>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dyanmically create metatags for the key parameters you want to
>>>>>>>> search:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> <meta name="vineyard" content="Chateau Lafite, Chateau, Lafite">
>>>>>>>> <meta name="varietal" content="Pinot Noir, Pinot, Noir">
>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Use witango to tokenize while creating the HTML pages for the
>>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>>> wines.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Then use swish-e's meta name search.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 18, 2004, at 05:39  PM, Roland Dumas wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In search engines, when you submit a search string, the search
>>>>>>>>> engine
>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>> tokenizes and then searches for each substring string separately
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>> brings them together as your found set. So if I search for 1961
>>>>>>>>> Chateau
>>>>>>>>> Lafite, I'll get items with 1961, others with Chateau or Chateu
>>>>>>>>> Lafite, and
>>>>>>>>> on top will be the found records with 1961 Chateau Lafite (I know,
>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> put it in quotes, it forces it to find only the whole string. That
>>>>>>>>> part is
>>>>>>>>> easy)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> They will also rank a find of the full set of terms above ones
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> one or
>>>>>>>>> two terms in the documents.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Questions:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> What's the approach with witango that will enable the search of
>>>>>>>>> tokenized
>>>>>>>>> strings.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Any ideas on how to do a crude ranking, such that the full term
>>>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>>>> up on
>>>>>>>>> top of the found set?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> __
>>>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>>> _
>>>>>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ___________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> __
>>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Roland Dumas
>>>>>>> Roberts Information Services
>>>>>>> 310 W. Bellevue Avenue
>>>>>>> San Mateo CA 94402
>>>>>>> 650-347-1373
>>>>>>> 415-412-9300 (cell)
>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>> SMS: http://new.servqual.com/html/sms.tml
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> __
>>>>>>> __
>>>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> __
>>>>>> _
>>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>          
>>>>>> 
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>>> __
>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>>>> 
>>>>>        
>>>>> 
>>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>> Roland Dumas
>>>> Roberts Information Services
>>>> 310 W. Bellevue Avenue
>>>> San Mateo CA 94402
>>>> 650-347-1373
>>>> 415-412-9300 (cell)
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> SMS: http://new.servqual.com/html/sms.tml
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> _
>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>>> 
>>>>      
>>>> 
>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>> 
>>>    
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Roland Dumas
>> Roberts Information Services
>> 310 W. Bellevue Avenue
>> San Mateo CA 94402
>> 650-347-1373
>> 415-412-9300 (cell)
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> SMS: http://new.servqual.com/html/sms.tml
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>> 
>>  
>> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 


-----------------------------------------
Roland Dumas
Roberts Information Services
310 W. Bellevue Avenue
San Mateo CA 94402
650-347-1373
415-412-9300 (cell)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SMS: http://new.servqual.com/html/sms.tml


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