Hi Bill, > I would prefer you work on an Eclipse plug- > in though (I'm very generous with YOUR time).
Not only are you generous with my time, you're generous with my karma ;-) Scott, On Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:26pm, William M Conlon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Thanks, Scott. > > You prompt two more observations. > > 1. I agree that the metatag language is cumbersome. I would love to > see it refactored into something a little more typist friendly. > That's for v.7. > > 2. Recursive Block:If-Then-Else structures are everyware (sic) so it > would make a lot of sense to provide this kind of overview/overlay in > all kinds of languages. I would prefer you work on an Eclipse plug- > in though (I'm very generous with YOUR time). > > Bill > > > On Oct 25, 2007, at 11:12 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote: > >> Execellent post Bill, very astute observations. >> >> Well worthy of the blogosphere. >> >> Although I prefer C# .NET coding over Witango as a language choice, >> I do still miss the Visual Action concept of the Editor very much. >> >> Many a day ago Ben and I submitted suggestions for forking the >> Witango Editor into a new stand-alone product where it could serve >> as a "visual overlay" for potentially any coding language, where >> your choice of language could be just an editor plug-in. >> >> I can't tell you how many times I've considered starting building >> something like this as a plug-in for Visual Studio. >> >> Oh well, maybe in my next life. >> >> Scott, >> >> >> On Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48pm, William M Conlon >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >> >>> A very fair question. Here are some answers. >>> >>> 1. I am a firm believer in the power of visual programming, and I >>> disagree with Fred Brooks on its viability. First, its the visual >>> cortex that is the brain's parallel processor, yet most software is >>> coded using the sequential cognitive capabilities! My point of view >>> is as a mechanical engineer. When I worked at PG&E/Bechtel on Diablo >>> Canyon Nuclear Power Plant, each engineer had a desk and a 4 x 8 >>> table, so we could open full-size layout, P&ID, single-line diagrams >>> and still have our desk for binders with specs, manuals, >>> calculations, etc. My view of Brooks' "software crisis" is that it's >>> because we force programmers to do linear, sequential thinking, and >>> give them a very small viewport into the problem (most text editors >>> are not much advanced beyond 80x24 displays). >>> >>> Successful visual programing models I have used include: >>> >>> a. Relay Ladder Logic: there are tens of thousands of high school or >>> less educated technicians/mechanics able to program industrial >>> equipment using this approach. It's fast, compact, and self- >>> documenting >>> b. Function Block Diagrams for Distributed Digital Control Systems >>> Power plant control systems I designed with this technique in 1984 >>> are still running, with essentially the same programs, and have >>> millions of operating hours on them. Again, the documentation is >>> easy to follow, and the function blocks are the BEST example of >>> software objects I have ever seen. >>> c. Witango. >>> >>> BTW, I am not opposed to text based programming, and am quite expert >>> at assembly language. >>> >>> 2. Span of control. There's a more au courant term for this (memory >>> fails), but it's really important to empower the expert programmers >>> to do more, because an army of average programmers ends up with least >>> common denominator results. I think the Witango programming model >>> allows me to do that, by providing abstraction in various places, >>> notable the actions, objects, and methods >>> >>> 3. I have found the server to be very robust -- linux 5.0.1.065 >>> production server has NEVER crashed. (I know how to induce crashes >>> with server-side JavaSscript, so I don't use it.) I like its >>> extensibility with custom metatags, and its scalability (though I >>> have not used it myself). I especially like variable scopes. I know >>> there are ways to achieve equivalent functionality in PHP, but it's >>> not as easy or natural for my brain, so these techniques would reduce >>> MY span of control (2). >>> >>> 4. Writing and testing SQL queries is not really very hard; the >>> builders don't really give me any benefit there. And complex queries >>> (self joins) really need to be done by hand anyway. Defining custom >>> columns for such a thing is just a confusing kludge. The builders >>> produce HTML 3.2 code, but we use XHTML1, so they don't provide >>> anything useful. I haven't used them in years. >>> >>> I know that one benefit of the builders is quick and dirty pages for >>> admin and such. But with well crafted methods and object instance >>> config files, you can use previously built and debugged admin >>> functionality, which will be better aesthetically and probably have >>> all sorts of additional bells and whistles, like following OWASP >>> guidelines, that the builders don't provide. >>> >>> >>> I think I'll take this note, and put it on my blog. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> William M. Conlon, P.E., Ph.D. >>> To the Point >>> 2330 Bryant Street >>> Palo Alto, CA 94301 >>> vox: 650.327.2175 (direct) >>> fax: 650.329.8335 >>> mobile: 650.906.9929 >>> e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> web: http://www.tothept.com >>> >>> >>> On Oct 25, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Robert Garcia wrote: >>> >>>> I have a question, if you go through all the work of doing >>>> everything in directDBMS, and I understand your reasons, why use >>>> witango and not php? You don't have to answer if you would rather >>>> not, I am just curious. If you eliminate the search actions and >>>> stuff, what is witango doing for you? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Robert Garcia >>>> President - BigHead Technology >>>> VP Application Development - eventpix.com >>>> 13653 West Park Dr >>>> Magalia, Ca 95954 >>>> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ >>>> >>>> On Oct 25, 2007, at 9:46 AM, William M Conlon wrote: >>>> >>>>> I concur I go a little further: >>>>> >>>>> 1. only use DirectDBMS, so you don't need the studio data sources >>>>> at all. This has the ancillary benefit or eliminating all the >>>>> problems [!CST] with the <DataDictionary /> that crop up in the >>>>> Studio, and keeps the appfile smaller. >>>>> >>>>> 2. define the <Datasource /> parameters as variables, so they can >>>>> be changed outside the appfile. >>>>> >>>>> 3. Move all DirectDBMS actions into TCFs (more like MVC) so the >>>>> TAF provides business logic and presentation, while the TCF >>>>> handles the data model. Use the OnCreate method to load the >>>>> <DataSource /> variables. And, keep these variables in a separate >>>>> configuration file which can be easily edited without the studio. >>>>> >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>> William M. Conlon, P.E., Ph.D. >>>>> To the Point >>>>> 2330 Bryant Street >>>>> Palo Alto, CA 94301 >>>>> vox: 650.327.2175 (direct) >>>>> fax: 650.329.8335 >>>>> mobile: 650.906.9929 >>>>> e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> web: http://www.tothept.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 25, 2007, at 7:02 AM, Robert Garcia wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> There is another way, it is still a pain in the a$$, but just >>>>>> about anything you do in the 5.5 studio is. You just have to >>>>>> choose which PITA you are most comfortable with. I have used the >>>>>> beta, I don't think that is going to be a solution for a long >>>>>> time. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am using mysql for instance. It is possible to setup ODBC on >>>>>> the intel machine for witango and mysql. It is a pain, because >>>>>> the studio crashes with many configurations. You have to use a >>>>>> PowerPC binary for the mysql odbc driver on intel, because the >>>>>> studio is powerpc, and the mysql drivers are not universal. I >>>>>> wish I could use the actualtech drivers, but witango crashes. >>>>>> >>>>>> When you create a taf with a datasource called "MyDSN" for >>>>>> instance, it creates an xml node within the datasources node in >>>>>> the xml of the taf, like this. >>>>>> >>>>>> <DataSource ID="MyDSN"> >>>>>> <DSType>ODBC</DSType> >>>>>> <DSN>MyDSN</DSN> >>>>>> <DBMS /> >>>>>> <Host>MyDSN</Host> >>>>>> <Database>Some Vendor Driver Name</Database> >>>>>> <UserInfo Encrypted="True"> >>>>>> <UserName>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL >>>>>> PROTECTED]@#$</UserName> >>>>>> <Password>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL >>>>>> PROTECTED]@@%</Password> >>>>>> </UserInfo> >>>>>> </DataSource> >>>>>> >>>>>> Now if you had a mysql JDBC driver on the server, and the >>>>>> Datasource setup on the server as "MyDSN" but using JDBC, all you >>>>>> would have to do to this taf, to get it to work on the server, is >>>>>> change value of the DSN node to JDBC, so it looks like this: >>>>>> >>>>>> <DataSource ID="MyDSN"> >>>>>> <DSType>JDBC</DSType> >>>>>> <DSN>MyDSN</DSN> >>>>>> <DBMS /> >>>>>> <Host>MyDSN</Host> >>>>>> <Database>Some Vendor Driver Name</Database> >>>>>> <UserInfo Encrypted="True"> >>>>>> <UserName>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL >>>>>> PROTECTED]@#$</UserName> >>>>>> <Password>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL >>>>>> PROTECTED]@@%</Password> >>>>>> </UserInfo> >>>>>> </DataSource> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thats it. The userid and the password will work, and the table >>>>>> and column definitions built from the studio using odbc will work >>>>>> just fine, they are the same as long as you were using the same >>>>>> db as odbc dsn. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have done this with mysql, mssql, oracle, and primebase. If you >>>>>> are not using one of those, I imagine it would work if your DB >>>>>> has both jdbc and odbc drivers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now the REAL PITA comes in when you want to deploy, or then edit >>>>>> after deployment, you have to open the thing in a text editor and >>>>>> manually edit. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, it would be REALLY easy to create a drag and drop little >>>>>> app, that would do this for you. So imagine you had an app, that >>>>>> you drug onto it any number of tafs. It was called "DSN - ODBC to >>>>>> JDBC". It would quickly parse and change the DSN nodes to JDBC. >>>>>> You would just drag your taf on it, and commit to your server. >>>>>> >>>>>> You could have another app, called "DSN - JDBC to ODBC" for when >>>>>> you had to edit a taf from the server in the studio. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now don't complain to me about how a$$backwards this is. ;-) I am >>>>>> just the messenger, but it would work. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Robert Garcia >>>>>> President - BigHead Technology >>>>>> VP Application Development - eventpix.com >>>>>> 13653 West Park Dr >>>>>> Magalia, Ca 95954 >>>>>> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 25, 2007, at 6:07 AM, Stephen Su wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> thank you all, we are running on intel machines, and have tried >>>>>>> parallels which caused more problems than using the mac os >>>>>>> without DB connection. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> : ( stephen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2007, at 6:29 AM, Dale Graham wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As a stop-gap, I have been using the Windows version of the >>>>>>>> editor on Parallels.... testing with Mac server version on the >>>>>>>> same computer. Weird but works (The irony is that because it's >>>>>>>> Intel, it runs Parallels very well, and the INTEL (Windows) >>>>>>>> JDBC works just fine, though setting up Java/JDBC on Windows >>>>>>>> can be a definite problem.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2007, at 2:59 AM, Stephen Su wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Has anyone successfully configured witango studio 5.5 to >>>>>>>>> connect up with data sources via. JDBC on an intel based >>>>>>>>> MacBook Pro? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - stephen >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> __ >>>>>>>>> _______ >>>>>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/ >>>>>>>>> maillist.taf >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> __ >>>>>>>> ______ >>>>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/ >>>>>>>> maillist.taf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> __ >>>>>>> _____ >>>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/ >>>>>>> maillist.taf >>>>>>> >>>>>> __________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> __ >>>>>> ____ >>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/ >>>>>> maillist.taf >>>>>> >>>>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>> __ >>>>> ___ >>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf >>>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>> __ >>>> __ >>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf >>>> >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> ___ >>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf >>> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> __ >> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf >> > ________________________________________________________________________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf > > ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
