-----Original Message-----
From: Mikal Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 02:18
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie
Wonderfully expressed, Mark. Thanks x 10,000.
Mikal Anderson
Developer from Tango Days
On 10/20/2008 11:57 PM, Mark "Hawk" Weiss wrote:
Nothing we say will smoke them out, or change their course.
One thing I have learned is that many people respond to
pressure and
challenges by using the tools they have. Some people
understand that
part of their tool box is other people. Some leaders NEVER
learn that
lesson, never see others as part of the solution. All along
the way,
the resources of this group were at their disposal. They
chose not to
use those resources. This happens all the time. In tons of
businesses,
heck in marriages. My wife has poor night vision driving,
and freaks
out, not because I am a poor driver, but because of what she can't
see. Her limitation on that point, becomes my challenge, even my
limitation, if you know what I mean.
Ill-formed and complex problems come up all the time in
business. Such
are the problems Phil faces. He could have involved others,
collaboratively, to solve those problems, share the load,
but has a
personality or mind set, that isn't open to that. That is
clear. It is
also clear that isn't going to change soon. He isn't going to say,
"Hey, sorry I didn't reach out, have a few sign
non-competes/disclosure or whatever and get this done for
all of us."
Not in the cards. Not in the personality. So just face it
and accept
it. He is still an ok guy for sure. Just not a viable
business partner
that I can tell.
There are several legal options that open the way for a collective
effort. Heaven knows, there have been many on the list who
would have
helped, and have shown by their actions over the years to be great
great resources. No matter what you say, you can't force them to be
collaborative or give up control or give up the credit or
trust others
who are better than them in some things. That is a choice
they need to
make willingly.
I have a relative like that. Absolutely no communication.
Nothing you
can do, until he needs something, and then afterwards he is
back into
his cave. I left a company and lost 6 figures to that kind of
behavior. Nothing could be done. Nothing.
Sylvia Ashton Warner, an educator in New Zealand said,
"Behavior has
it's reasons." It always does. Being clueless about them,
and having
an unwilling partner, destroys trust. And trust is at the center of
all successful human relationships.
So here is where I think we are at.
Someday perhaps a product will be released and and version of open
source of some flavor. At that point, it will be as if this product
had never existed. It will be a new product and a new idea
and a new
approach. Phil will then start over and build a new group of users
from scratch. People who are new to the web development world, and
don't have any of the history or baggage we all do for the
most part,
will form his new business model, and slowly if at all, he
will have
support again. Some of us might consider it if we see a
viable model.
Then each of us will have to decide if this "new product" is worth
taking a look at.
In the mean time, for me, it hurts in a personal way, to be treated
like this. I mean it cuts to the heart. Many comments of
others on the
list reflect that hurt as well. I really know how this
kind of abuse
hurts. Such hurt is often really deep.
I don't think any of us will ever understand how someone
can care so
little about others, or care so much about themselves, to
treat others
in such a wasteful and abusive way when help was all around them.
Everyone says how nice and well meaning the Witango folks
are. Perhaps
in their own way or in their own minds. In any commercial
sense, they
are not well meaning. However personable I think Phil is
and he has
been nice to me the few times I have interacted, they are
not nice in
a commercial sense. We can have a cup of hot cocoa no problem. but
commercial trust takes a long time to develop and for most that is
long gone.
I have this son, he gets three tickets, crunches a car and
comes to me
Friday night and says, "Dad, I want to borrow the car." I respond,
"Son, we have the love thing going. I will always love you
and be on
your side. I am in your corner. What we don't have going
right now is
the trust thing. You don't have to work for my love, but we
all have
to work for trust. In a few months after things settle
down, perhaps
we can the trust thing going again. For now, nope, you
don't get the
car. Sorry." The personal regard for Phil is there. It's
the trust thing.
However, given this hand we have been dealt, we all now can choose.
Play by Phil's rules or Not. If we choose to play by his
rules, then
shut up. If we choose not to then move on and remember the
good times.
Pals forever,
Mark Weiss
On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:21 PM, Tom Ferguson wrote:
And why do I find it funny that I get e-Mail to Phil and Sophie
returned as "Undeliverable".
Guess they have bailed too.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 10:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie
I find it curious that no one from WiTango has responded to this
thread.
I think that speaks volumes.
Tango is dead. That sucks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Sanders [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:33
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie
Hey Webdude,
I'd check out Cold Fusion. It's a pretty easy transition
from WiTango.
Taf = cfm
Tcf = cfc
Best of all, you develop in Dreamweaver. The Cold Fusion
app server is
free for development. Best of all, you can develop on a Mac
and use a
PC as the CF server.
Rick Sanders
Webenergy
Canada: 902-431-7279
USA: 919-799-9076
Canada: www.webenergy.ca
USA: www.webenergyusa.com
-----Original Message-----
From: WebDude [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: October-20-08 12:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie
Hello all,
Well, I have a problem and maybe some of you could help
me. I have
been using nothing but Tango and Witango since I started
developing
many years ago. Started on Mac with Butler and
eventually moved to
Windows. Witango is all I have ever used and now I am in a
quandry. I
see the writing is on the wall and though I have
resisted for many
years, it seems that I am going to have to take the plunge
and figure
out what to do for what I have that already exists and for
the future.
The problem is that I am so comfortable with what I have
that moving
is going to take a lot of effort. I have been going through the
different options out there and I am so confused as to editors,
parsers, etc. that I really do not know which direction
to turn. I
have a very small smattering of ASP which I hacked in order
to get a
site that was moved to our servers to work, but that is the
only other
language that I even attempted to try. The real crux of the
problem is
that everything out there looks very confusing and so far
removed from
what I currently have. I am fairly adept in SQL, Witango,
HTML and CSS
but I have never taken the time to learn anything new.
I downloaded some PHP editors, some sample ASP stuff, and
to tell you
the truth, I just don't get a lot of it. Is there anything
out there
that gives as visual of an interface as Witango? Or maybe
is there a
specific place you can go to relearn the logic that it
will take to
use any of the tools available? I think PHP is probably the
place to
start, but I am totally confused as to how to go about
it. I would
prefer to continue using IIS as I am very familiar with it
along with
the security. I went to the PHP site and it seems that
there are pages
upon pages of just the install for IIS. Or, how about
editors? Are
there any that you would recommend?
Keep in mind my Witango background. I never went to school
for any of
this stuff and I have some pretty complicated things
running on my
sites from forums to streaming PDFs, data access management
systems to
e-commerce.
This is going to be tough, but I need to take it one step
at a time...
<html>
<head>
<title>PHP Test</title>
</head>
<body>
<?php echo '<p>Hello World</p>'; ?> </body> </html>
WebDude
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http://trustthechildren.blogspot.com
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