On Tuesday 31 of May 2005 03:48, Elijah Newren wrote: > On 5/30/05, Robert McQueen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Lubos Lunak wrote: > > > That said, if getting focus is just a configuration option in Gaim, > > > then you could use _NET_ACTIVE_MESSAGE with the source indication field > > > saying it comes from a tool that represent direct user action. Granted, > > > in this case saying those tools are taskbars, pagers and similar is > > > somewhat imprecise, but the logic stays - the option in Gaim is a kind > > > of a direct user action. Kopete does have such an option and does it > > > this way. > > Offering such an option would be a bug in Kopete, IMNSHO. ;-) It's > effectively a way for a client to say to the WM "I'm important--and > the way that you should notify the user that I'm important is to focus > my window". WMs should decide policy (e.g. how important apps should > be handled and displayed to the user), not apps. (Discussed further > below in the context of GAIM & raising) ... > > Is it the consensus of the list that in light of the fact this is the > > user explicitly asking for their focus to be stolen, these options > > should now cause Gaim to use _NET_ACTIVE_WINDOW with source indication 2 > > (user) to *actually* raise the window as the preference says? > > Not at all; I totally disagree with that sentiment. My opinion is > that GAIM is buggy for offering such an option (though this is almost > certainly the fault of WMs & DEs that didn't support Urgency in the > past when they should have *cough*). The description of Urgency > already explicitly lists raising the window as one possible thing that > a WM can do.
"One possible thing to do". The Kopete option is there because (I presume) some people simply want that window to be activated when a new message arrives. There are also other kinds of (less intrusive) notifications like using DEMANDS_ATTENTION, using KNotify stuff like a passive popup, and whatever. If, hypothetically, we agree that this is bad and we should only support Urgency for this, and you make Metacity activate&raise urgent windows, and I simply make KWin (and the KDE taskbar) blink the taskbar entry, what is a user supposed to do if they really want that window to be activated? Adding that option to Kopete seemed perfectly fine to me, because that's a user setting that defaults to off. It's not a broken application abusing the spec, it's a deliberately activated option. > Apps shouldn't be specifying "I am important, and this > is how you should notify the user that I am import", they should > simply state "I am important, please notify the user." The former > results in GAIM raising itself, app B focusing itself, app C focusing > and raising itself, app D having its button in the taskbar blink, app > E having some special applet present some kind of notification > message, etc., giving a totally inconsistent environment. The latter > makes for a nice, consistent environment. I don't think things like passive popups are WM's job. That's why KDE has KNotify, which should make for a nice, consistent environment (it actually is not doing a very good job at it, but that's another issue). > If the user doesn't like > how important apps are handled, they should complain to the WM/DE, NOT > to the application authors (unless, of course, apps are abusing or > neglecting or otherwise misusing the urgency or demands attention > hints). > > I know that removing the GAIM option may not be desireable in the > short term (too many users with buggy WMs/DEs (i.e. all currently > deployed versions of Gnome)), but they could at least change the > option to read "request that the window be raised" or something > similar for now. -- Lubos Lunak KDE developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SuSE CR, s.r.o. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] , [EMAIL PROTECTED] Drahobejlova 27 tel: +420 2 9654 2373 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 2 9654 2374 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ _______________________________________________ wm-spec-list mailing list [email protected] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/wm-spec-list
