If you use Dean Robinsons "Fluency" admin-interface, there is no scrolling to see the options. And, it's better looking than the default.
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:59 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Send wp-testers mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-testers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of wp-testers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: AW: Write Page (Annie) > 2. Re: Center (Matt Mullenweg) > 3. Re: AW: Write Page (Michael Bazeley) > 4. Re: 2.5 RC2 where are post slugs gone? (Francesc Hervada-Sala) > 5. Re: AW: Write Page (deliciousdays) > 6. youtube shortcode (px) > 7. Re: AW: Write Page (Matt Mullenweg) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:24:22 -0700 > From: Annie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [wp-testers] AW: Write Page > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > I got the joke as I'm sure others did. > > But joking doesn't hide or lessen the issue we're discussing. > > In my opinion, this is a major flaw. And no, "living with it" isn't > going to make me like it. > > > > ~ Annie > > (Oh - and I don't eat omelets, or eggs for that matter. ;-) I'm > allergic . . .) > > On Mar 27, 2008, at 9:49 PM, Matt Mullenweg wrote: > > > Annie wrote: > >> And I completely agree with Dawnne here. It's totally not the > >> scrolling that's the issue - it's the user friendliness of often > >> used fields. > > > > Sorry, was just attempting a joke. > > > >> Like the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." > > > > I completely agree with that, but you've got to break a few eggs to > > make an omelet. > > > >> I do like most of the other changes and upgrades but this > >> one . . . it's counter-productive and makes the whole design feel > >> broken to me. > > > > I think for a chunk of the people who currently dislike it, living > > with it for a few posts will grow to like it. > > > > Others may never take to it, but that's okay, WP has always done > > what it considers best in core, avoided unnecessary options, and > > allowed people with differing opinions about how things should work > > to express that through plugins. We also watch usage of plugins > > closely, and might change the direction of the software based on > > something with grassroots popularity, in fact many of the major > > features in WP the past few years have been a result of this. > > > > -- > > Matt Mullenweg > > http://ma.tt | http://automattic.com > > _______________________________________________ > > wp-testers mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-testers > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:33:22 -0700 > From: Matt Mullenweg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [wp-testers] Center > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Austin Matzko wrote: > > I know Happy Cog did testing and observation with the old design and > > paper mockups of the new, but are there any plans for the firm to go > > back and do the same testing with a working version of the 2.5 design, > > as actually implemented? > > The interface has been mostly functional in trunk for a few months now, > so yes, it has happened already. The work didn't finish when the PSDs > were tossed over the fence, in many ways it just started. > > -- > Matt Mullenweg > http://ma.tt | http://automattic.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:39:40 -0700 > From: "Michael Bazeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [wp-testers] AW: Write Page > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > > > > > > I mean if I'm in the write post section why would I even be thinking > about > > managing any of those things? My current thoughts are on making a POST, > > thus I want to see the options and selections for making the post, why > > make > > the user have to scroll to make these selections when you have this > whole > > sidebar area on the right that could be utilized for efficiency? Just > > because it's open source doesn't mean you have to make it like pulling > > teeth. We are your users, we are your testers, and we are trying to > help > > you develop this to be user friendly, and the current horizontal design > is > > not user friendly. In fact I haven't seen a single post praising the > > design > > of the page we are discussing, all I have read are suggestions for > > improving > > it. > > > > Obviously, the discussion around this is not going to stop 2.5 or provoke > a > change soon, if ever. And I imagine that some people would like the > discussion to just go away so they can focus on the outstanding bugs. Fair > enough. But I have to agree that moving the categories box downpage and > replacing it with non-post-related links jumped out at me immediately when > I > first used 2.5. I've been using it daily for a couple of weeks now, and > I'm > still annoyed by it (despite Matt prediction). I suppose what a lot of the > critics of this change want to know is WHY change. And I think that goes > beyond just saying that Happy Cog knows what it's doing and did lots of > testing. What's the logic behind the change? Because it really feels like > an > inefficient and illogical use of that important page's space. > > Cheers, > > Michael > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 06:59:17 +0100 > From: Francesc Hervada-Sala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [wp-testers] 2.5 RC2 where are post slugs gone? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Am Donnerstag, 27. März 2008 22:50:20 schrieb Ryan Boren: > > The permalink editor isn't shown if you are not using "pretty" > > permalinks. There's a ticket about this in trac. > > > > http://trac.wordpress.org/ticket/6364 > > > > I'll look into a fix. > > > Hello all, > > Ryan: thanks a lot for this information, now is it all clear! > > Please do not let this as it is for the 2.5 release. I was very upset > yesterday, because after a new installation the post slug was not shown > any > more. I am sure other people will have this trouble, too. One expects the > permalink is at that place, and suddenly it is not there any more. (To > your > information: I use the post slugs in my cross-references-plugin as an > alternative post ID when setting cross-references from one post to > another. > This has nothing to do whith permalinks, but uses the post slug, too.) > > I propose this: A new option "Show pretty permalinks on post edit page". > This > can only be enabled if the blog uses pretty permalinks. If it is enabled, > one > sees the javascript-permalink under the title, if it is disabled, then the > slgudiv is not hidden. > > Cheers, > > -- > Francesc > Username: hervada > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 06:59:12 +0100 > From: deliciousdays <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [wp-testers] AW: Write Page > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > +1 > > Annie wrote: > > And I completely agree with Dawnne here. It's totally not the > > scrolling that's the issue - it's the user friendliness of often used > > fields. > > > > Like the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." > > > > I do like most of the other changes and upgrades but this one . . . > > it's counter-productive and makes the whole design feel broken to me. > > > > ~ Annie > > > > On Mar 27, 2008, at 8:45 PM, Dawnne Gee wrote: > > > >> Erg. That response doesn't address what many of us are perceiving to > >> be the > >> problem. Does it take that much time to scroll? Of course not! (For > >> those > >> who have a device that scrolls). The assertion can be summed up, > >> "Along with > >> your WordPress 2.5 Upgrade, we strongly recommend the immediate > >> purchase of > >> a pointing device with a scroll wheel, as well as a USB hub if such is > >> necessary." So much for the "free" in Free! Upgrade! > >> > >> And one's ability to scroll is not THE POINT! The point is, something > >> (several things) that used to be readily available no longer are. Sure, > >> they're still there, but the ease of use and fluidity that some of us > >> fell > >> in love with (and migrated our blogs from blogger, typepad, et al to > >> use), > >> will be gone with this "upgrade". > >> > >> It's kind of like going to your favorite restaurant, ordering a New! > >> Better! > >> No Hormones! steak, and the waitress brings you a plate with some > >> rice and > >> veggies on it, and tells you the steak will be served later....on the > >> table > >> behind you. > >> > >> I don't think you'd eat there very long, but the fact that you have > >> many of > >> us who aren't willing to go migrate our blogs off to another system > >> really > >> shouldn't be interpreted as a request to treat us like that restaurant. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> > >> Matt Moore wrote: > >>> The new way is terrible. Every single post has a category or a tag, > >>> and > >>> putting the input for them off the screen makes for too many posts in > >>> 'uncategorized.' > >> > >> I'm going to buy you one of those little new-fangled mouses with the > >> wheels in the middle. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> wp-testers mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-testers > > > > _______________________________________________ > > wp-testers mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-testers > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:59:40 -0700 > From: px <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [wp-testers] youtube shortcode > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Matt Mullenweg wrote: > > The most popular shortcode we've done thus far is a youtube one, which > > is like [youtube http://youtube.com/?v=aoeuaoue]. This gets expanded, > After reading that on this list, I immediately tried a youtube test post > on my blog running 2.5rc2. it didn't embed. :( > > A search led me to here > http://faq.wordpress.com/2006/07/29/how-do-i-post-a-youtube-video/ > but that makes me think it's only for WordPress.com blogs. > > any chance this shortcode will make it into the WordPress trunk for > general users? > > I was kind of hoping the new add video feature would have been like that. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:30:51 -0700 > From: Matt Mullenweg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [wp-testers] AW: Write Page > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Daniel Schoonover wrote: > > Wow that was a professional answer there... > > Sorry, my following posts expand on the points a bit more. > > > The designers screwed up on the > > write page, which was pretty much perfect the way it was. > > I don't think anyone who has done support for WP or trained other people > on its usage could claim the write page was pretty much perfect, > actually it was pretty awful. We got used to it, and comfortable with > it, but just because it was widely used doesn't mean it was right. > > > I'm sorry to > > break the bad news but the current design of the "Write Post/Page" is > > completely counter-intuitive to the user. > > Saying "I think it's counter-intuitive" is very different from saying > "users think this is counter-intuitive." To say the latter, you need a > much larger sample size than yourself or a few people on this > self-selected list. > > The first I could totally agree with, the second I wouldn't. > > > Who's idea was it to waste the space that used to be for Category > selections > > with > > Whitespace is not wasted space. Filling every possible centimeter with > stuff does not make it better, creates a lot of cognitive load, and is > frustrating even for savvy users. > > There is lots of research on this: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_theory > > For example, people, especially unsophisticated consumers, tend to buy > products with more buttons because they're perceived to be better, but > their tested happiness with said products is lower over time. They would > have been better off and happier getting the less complex thing, even > though they would swear to the grave they bought the right stereo. > > I have never claimed to be an expert on any of this, but I know enough > to know what I don't know, and hopefully enough to be able to find > someone who can do a much better job. This is the basis of my whole > adult life, actually. > > > I mean if I'm in the write post section why would I even be thinking > about > > managing any of those things? My current thoughts are on making a POST, > > thus I want to see the options and selections for making the post, why > make > > the user have to scroll to make these selections when you have this > whole > > sidebar area on the right that could be utilized for efficiency? > > Assumptions here: > > 1. Because I don't think about those things, no one else things about > those things. > 2. The space could be more efficiency used by something else, for > example categories. > 3. Things in the sidebar are more noticed than things in the main column. > > I would like to note as one of the people behind the previous layout of > the WP write page, there was a time when I would have agreed with those > assumptions completely. My mind has been changed. > > Some of my assumptions now are that: > > 1. Categories, particularly the new layout, need more horizontal space > than is available in the sidebar. When we add things like "suggested > categories" this will become more obvious. > 2. Things like tags are more commonly used than categories, and we can't > squeeze those in the sidebar too. > 3. Things in the sidebar get missed unless you know to look there, even > when they're above the "fold" and you don't have to scroll to see them. > 4. The stuff in the sidebar now -- saving, previewing, status, > timestamps -- are the most important things to put there. > > > Just > > because it's open source doesn't mean you have to make it like pulling > > teeth. > > As someone who got 5 teeth pulled on Monday, I take offense at that. :) > > > We are your users, we are your testers, and we are trying to help > > you develop this to be user friendly, and the current horizontal design > is > > not user friendly. > > Which is the whole reason we solicit feedback, to have as much > information, even if it's anecdotal, to synthesize and make the best > decisions possible, which I believe we are doing there, but by > suggesting what you think is what everyone thinks you're forcing me to > take a position of disagreeing with you, when I would rather just > collate your feedback with all the others and try to make the best > decision possible. > > > In fact I haven't seen a single post praising the design > > of the page we are discussing, all I have read are suggestions for > improving > > it. > > Mistakes can and will be changed, like the CTRL+V popup in the WYSIWYG, > which slipped into RC2 but is gone now. > > I've read all the emails to the aforementioned feedback address, the > 750+ pingbacks (not all in English, granted) to the announcement posts, > all the media coverage, and been involved with the process of this > particular design for the better part of a year. > > If you want I could link you to thirty blogs praising the new design, > but that doesn't make either of us right or wrong and someone would > inevitable accuse myself or the dev team of drinking our own kool-aid, > only paying attention to the positive press, or surrounding ourselves > with yes men and fanboys. Some people might disagree or not understand > individual decisions, but have faith based on our previous track record > that the decisions are for the best. > > In reality I tend to read the criticism more carefully than the praise, > because it often has more nuggets of possible changes. But that doesn't > mean I'm going to agree with it all. > > -- > Matt Mullenweg > http://ma.tt | http://automattic.com > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > wp-testers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-testers > > > End of wp-testers Digest, Vol 37, Issue 150 > ******************************************* > _______________________________________________ wp-testers mailing list [email protected] http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-testers
