_Leonardo Electronic Almanac Discussion (LEAD)_ Apologies for cross-posting. The following is the transcript from last night's/this morning's chat session with MEZ/netwurker, part of the online discussion around the New Media Poetics special issue of the _Leonardo Online Almanac_ (http://leoalmanac.org/). More info on MEZ is here: http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker/nav.htm and http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker/resume2d.htm.
I deleted a few remarks prior to the start of the chat, but the transcript is otherwise unedited, with the goal of preserving the spontaneity and flow of the chat environment. Because there were only two chatters for much of the time - myself and MEZ - there are some digressions and play. We're later joined by Phillippe Bootz. The discussion ranges from MMO (massive multiplayer online gaming), to MEZ's avatars and textual practice, to her new working with/in relatioin to social software. I found the discussion quite incredible, and there's a tremendous amount of interest to new media poetics, codewurking, net culture, etc. Feel free to forward the transcript elsewhere. We will archive all the chats and make them available over the web as well. Don't forget the next chat with Stephanie Strickland on Oct 20. Sandy <begin transcript> [2:34 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> are you playing a lot of mmo? [2:34 AM]<infomorphia> i am :-) [2:34 AM]<infomorphia> u? [2:35 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> b(~_^)b [2:35 AM]<infomorphia> which? [2:35 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> not so much - thumbs up was for you - i mess with runescape at the moment, did some warcraft a while back [2:35 AM]<infomorphia> hmmm....no 2nd Life? [2:35 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> for a long time, i was interested in shooter, so counterstrike, ghost recon, etc. [2:36 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> oh, a bit - not much. should i 2nd life? [2:36 AM]<infomorphia> ooo...HL2? Quake? Doom retro? [2:36 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> yes, fascinated by those. [2:36 AM]<infomorphia> i want 2 try Prey + F>E>A>R [2:36 AM]<infomorphia> so ur an old time gamer? [2:36 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> did the demo for that [2:36 AM]<infomorphia> which? [2:37 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> demo for prey. >> used to play original wolfenstein [2:37 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> and u? [2:37 AM]<infomorphia> + wot was ur take on WoW? [2:37 AM]<infomorphia> hah. nice, old skool. [2:37 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> schnell [2:37 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> WoW... not sure I can opine [2:37 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> rather would hear it from you [2:37 AM]<infomorphia> ah. so not World of Warcraft, just warcraft? [2:38 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> yes [2:38 AM]<infomorphia> its fascinating in terms of a sociological perspective....the way cluster groups form in the end_game structuring... [2:39 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> my students play these - all they talk about [2:39 AM]<infomorphia> + the way its constructed 2 evolve 2wards unadvoidable soc_contact as the game looping gets past the point of solo play... [2:40 AM]<infomorphia> how ppl cope with the addictive nature of play etc..... [2:40 AM]<infomorphia> + the way ppl perceive their character[i]s[ations.....whether they talk about them in the 3rd person etc.... [2:41 AM]<infomorphia> vocality is strange but b.comes second[life]nature when vent or teamspeak or used. [2:41 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> <curious how this can / will play out in mezangelle or netwurking> [2:41 AM]<infomorphia> wot do u students say about it? [2:42 AM]<infomorphia> well, 4 starters:http://netwurker.livejournal.com/?skip=20 [2:42 AM]<infomorphia> http://netwurker.livejournal.com/?skip=20 [2:42 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> well, hard for me because i'm not up on the games - but they talk about groups/teams/swarms working to defeat <not sure whom> [2:43 AM]<infomorphia> [some entries focused on game(r)-N.p(lay)ut] [2:43 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> did you play/read IF? [2:43 AM]<infomorphia> guilds forming to run instances/raids? [2:43 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> --> sounds right, raids. [2:43 AM]<infomorphia> IF = Ironforge? [2:44 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> no oldskool, interactive fiction (sorry, a digression) [2:44 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> yes, raids [2:44 AM]<infomorphia> np :-) [2:44 AM]<infomorphia> some, but not till late [ie late teens] [2:44 AM]<infomorphia> u? [2:45 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> yes, adventure / zork on all those infogames [2:45 AM]<infomorphia> eliza? alice? [2:45 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> and board based d&d for years [2:45 AM]<infomorphia> oooOOOoo *totally* OS! [2:46 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> but i [2:46 AM] infomorphia is now known as old.skoolio. [2:46 AM] old.skoolio has entered the room. [2:46 AM]<crisp_of_sandy> but im not sure that any of that deals with what you're talking 'bout in WoW [2:46 AM] crisp_of_sandy is now known as run_DMC. [2:46 AM] run_DMC has entered the room. [2:46 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [2:46 AM]<old.skoolio> its all a progression of sorts.... [2:46 AM] old.skoolio is now known as walkthisway. [2:46 AM] walkthisway has entered the room. [2:46 AM]<walkthisway> :-) [2:47 AM] run_DMC is now known as _king. [2:47 AM] _king has entered the room. [2:47 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [2:47 AM]<_king> oops [2:47 AM] _king is now known as king_of_rock. [2:47 AM] king_of_rock has entered the room. [2:47 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [2:47 AM]<walkthisway> in terms of deveoping an ability to project reality thru different filters + reconstructing place, i c them all as incredibly relevant [2:47 AM] walkthisway is now known as kidrock. [2:47 AM] kidrock has entered the room. [2:48 AM]<king_of_rock> but I wonder about leaps - the kind of sociality in the mmp [2:48 AM]<king_of_rock> - perhaps irc is closer [2:48 AM]<king_of_rock> ok, yes, agree about place -- interaction with parser --> projection onto text [2:48 AM]<kidrock> it has a duality that i suspect maybe mimics a d&d n.teraction... [2:49 AM]<kidrock> that wondering n.ter.facing+txting of consciousness.... [2:49 AM]<kidrock> ie ability 2 juggle notions of concurrent identities? [2:49 AM]<king_of_rock> w[a][o]ndering [2:49 AM] kidrock is now known as awo[nder]l. [2:49 AM] awo[nder]l has entered the room. [2:49 AM]<king_of_rock> d&d yes, a hand on the die and on the sword [2:50 AM] king_of_rock is now known as dungeon_master. [2:50 AM] dungeon_master has entered the room. [2:50 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [2:50 AM]<dungeon_master> #shift.on(e).h[d]ead.meld+snowing.m.motional.flakings# [2:50 AM]<awo[nder]l> ..+ on ur phasing b.tween fantasy + [concurrent] ego pre.s[in]cense? [2:50 AM]<dungeon_master> --> opened your journal [2:50 AM]<awo[nder]l> gutt :-) [2:51 AM]<dungeon_master> ph[r]asing [2:51 AM]<awo[nder]l> [_n_creasing.reality.d.is.placements] [2:51 AM]<awo[nder]l> [[bother.c_odes.blistering.clinical]] [2:51 AM]<awo[nder]l> [[[[stretching.bland.c(h)overings]]]] [[[[[[[[[c(erebra.l)u(s)t.off+]]]]]]] [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[absent.ons]]]]]]]]]]]] [2:51 AM]<dungeon_master> phrase/phase: catches code + enunciation [2:51 AM]<awo[nder]l> n.deed. [2:52 AM] awo[nder]l is now known as do.e.nun.wear.habits?. [2:52 AM] do.e.nun.wear.habits? has entered the room. [2:52 AM] dungeon_master is now known as Mr.Serious.Moderator. [2:52 AM] Mr.Serious.Moderator has entered the room. [2:52 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [2:52 AM]<do.e.nun.wear.habits?> oh [2:52 AM]<Mr.Serious.Moderator> at some point the others may come (sounds like Lost) [2:52 AM] Mr.Serious.Moderator is now known as ooh.nunz.lose.habitz. [2:52 AM] ooh.nunz.lose.habitz has entered the room. [2:52 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [2:52 AM] do.e.nun.wear.habits? is now known as Ms.Seriousity. [2:52 AM] Ms.Seriousity has entered the room. [2:53 AM] Ms.Seriousity is now known as y.r.they.called.nuns?. [2:53 AM] y.r.they.called.nuns? has entered the room. [2:53 AM] ooh.nunz.lose.habitz is now known as lack.sumz. [2:53 AM] lack.sumz has entered the room. [2:53 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [2:53 AM] y.r.they.called.nuns? is now known as cos.they.get.nun. [2:53 AM] cos.they.get.nun has entered the room. [2:53 AM]<cos.they.get.nun> >_< [2:54 AM]<lack.sumz> or they don't got sums. [2:54 AM] cos.they.get.nun is now known as Lost.ologies. [2:54 AM] Lost.ologies has entered the room. [2:54 AM]<Lost.ologies> n.deed. [2:54 AM]<lack.sumz> my hands rember nuns [2:54 AM]<Lost.ologies> where u reffing Lost as in tha teev show? [2:54 AM]<Lost.ologies> _ember.nones_: sounds like a nu numeral [2:54 AM]<lack.sumz> yes, show. [2:55 AM]<Lost.ologies> thoughts on it? [2:55 AM]<lack.sumz> not liking the 3rd season. [2:55 AM]<Lost.ologies> http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Main_Page [2:55 AM]<lack.sumz> - extended game / play distracts me - [2:56 AM]<lack.sumz> bernuns sounds like a plant [2:56 AM]<Lost.ologies> so the loose_teasing_feedback narror.tiff is also in the 3rd? [2:56 AM]<Lost.ologies> eh, it does;) [2:56 AM]<lack.sumz> - yes [2:56 AM]<Lost.ologies> have only seen up to the 2nd [2:57 AM]<lack.sumz> not missing much so far [2:57 AM]<lack.sumz> mystery of dharma: interests me [2:57 AM]<Lost.ologies> how does it differ from 1+2? [2:57 AM]<Lost.ologies> so it shood ;) [2:57 AM] Lost.ologies is now known as infoshod. [2:57 AM] infoshod has entered the room. [2:57 AM]<lack.sumz> - all, so far, been playingout/with captured lost ones [2:58 AM]<infoshod> u or the series? ;-) [2:58 AM]<lack.sumz> oh, me. [2:58 AM]<lack.sumz> the series they all arrived home [2:58 AM]<lack.sumz> not reely. [2:58 AM]<infoshod> how so? [2:58 AM]<infoshod> eheh Wizards of Ozlost! [2:58 AM] infoshod is now known as toe.toe. [2:58 AM] toe.toe has entered the room. [2:58 AM]<lack.sumz> reminds me at times of the prisoner [2:59 AM] lack.sumz is now known as number6. [2:59 AM] number6 has entered the room. [2:59 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [2:59 AM] toe.toe is now known as numburrr.9...numburr9. [2:59 AM] numburrr.9...numburr9 has entered the room. [2:59 AM]<numburrr.9...numburr9> another show? [2:59 AM] number6 is now known as i've_blisters_on_my_fingers. [2:59 AM] i've_blisters_on_my_fingers has entered the room. [2:59 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [2:59 AM]<numburrr.9...numburr9> eheheh :-) [2:59 AM]<i've_blisters_on_my_fingers> yes, old one [2:59 AM] numburrr.9...numburr9 is now known as better_than_on_ur_skull . [2:59 AM] better_than_on_ur_skull has entered the room. [2:59 AM]<i've_blisters_on_my_fingers> "retired" spy in "The Village" cannot escape [3:00 AM]<better_than_on_ur_skull > n.teresting. u have a link? [3:00 AM] i've_blisters_on_my_fingers is now known as i_Am_theeggman. [3:00 AM] i_Am_theeggman has entered the room. [3:00 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [3:00 AM]<i_Am_theeggman> mm hold on [3:00 AM]<better_than_on_ur_skull > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner [3:00 AM]<better_than_on_ur_skull > ? [3:00 AM]<i_Am_theeggman> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner [3:00 AM]<better_than_on_ur_skull > ahaha :-) [3:00 AM]<i_Am_theeggman> ack [3:00 AM] better_than_on_ur_skull is now known as *snap!*. [3:00 AM] *snap!* has entered the room. [3:00 AM]<i_Am_theeggman> yolk [3:00 AM] i_Am_theeggman is now known as slo_typah. [3:00 AM] slo_typah has entered the room. [3:00 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [3:00 AM]<*snap!*> lemme n.put 4 a sec.... [3:02 AM]<*snap!*> n.teresting tie-ins... [3:02 AM]<*snap!*> 2: [3:02 AM]<*snap!*> no 5 in "V for Vendetta" [3:02 AM]<*snap!*> no 8 in aliens 4 [3:02 AM]<*snap!*> can't think of an no 7 :-( [3:02 AM]<slo_typah> <not seen v> [3:02 AM]<*snap!*> !!!! [3:02 AM]<*snap!*> not read it? [3:02 AM]<slo_typah> yes read it [3:03 AM]<slo_typah> :-) [3:03 AM]<slo_typah> thinking of numbers [3:03 AM]<*snap!*> *phew* [3:03 AM]<*snap!*> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_vendetta [3:03 AM]<slo_typah> --> reading your live journal post on happiness. [3:03 AM]<*snap!*> thoughts? [3:04 AM]<slo_typah> 1) not thot of like this usually - not as a frame or something we can work on [3:05 AM]<slo_typah> 2) not how it seems to me your work is thought of either [3:06 AM]<*snap!*> how do u purr.ceive my work is thought of? [via u or other/ubers?] [3:06 AM]<slo_typah> 3) [thinking of how i read your work] seems to me your writing more often is thought of as sets of players or actors(?), performances [3:06 AM] *snap!* is now known as purrr.sieve. [3:06 AM] purrr.sieve has entered the room. [3:06 AM]<purrr.sieve> purse.owners? [personasssss] [3:07 AM]<slo_typah> --> it is performances, but surely in relation to ego --> [3:07 AM]<slo_typah> tu[r]nings of identity [3:07 AM]<purrr.sieve> ego as psychological construct? or ego as personal status gratifier? [3:07 AM]<slo_typah> pursuit.owner. both [3:08 AM]<purrr.sieve> ava.tar[red+soft.code.brushed] [3:08 AM]<slo_typah> --> can you say more about ego / definition in codewurkiing? [3:08 AM] philippe_bootz has entered the room. [3:08 AM]<purrr.sieve> do u c the ava.tars as manifestions devoid of extensions? ie standalone? [3:08 AM] slo_typah is now known as sandyb. [3:08 AM] sandyb has entered the room. [3:08 AM] You are currently a moderator of this room. [3:08 AM] * purrr.sieve nods @ phil [3:09 AM]<purrr.sieve> elloha:) [3:09 AM]<sandyb> bonjour philippe [3:09 AM]<philippe_bootz> hello everybody [3:10 AM]<purrr.sieve> how r u this fine <n.sert timestamp of ur choice> [3:10 AM]<purrr.sieve> ;-) [3:10 AM] purrr.sieve is now known as netwurker. [3:10 AM] netwurker has entered the room. [3:10 AM]<sandyb> quasi-formal interview question: i'm wondering about the relation between chat and other protocols, on the one hand, and the "author"/identity we read, on the other [3:10 AM]<netwurker> we r range.l.ee discussing avatars, egos, and codewurk.n.tersections. [3:11 AM]<netwurker> chat = txt based yes? [3:11 AM]<sandyb> yes, [3:11 AM]<sandyb> or other text convention... [3:12 AM]<netwurker> in terms of formulation, chat can b viewed as an extenibly marker of identification sets, ie chat structuring illustrating various truths regarding its holder/owner/.speaker/.txter.... [3:13 AM]<netwurker> if we delve deep enuff a chat set can illustrate variablity + open loadings..... [3:13 AM]<sandyb> parse open loadings? [3:14 AM]<netwurker> a set identity on the other hand [even 1 we d.clare 2 b "our own"] seems frozen, less likely 2 reveal deliciousness in terms of potentialities? [3:15 AM]<netwurker> OL= associations or divergences we bring 2 meanings, comprehensions... [3:15 AM]<sandyb> ok [3:15 AM]<sandyb> "deliciousness" - as richness of potential and range? [3:16 AM]<netwurker> thats y [2 use a loaded term] avatars/projections/virtualities that r gleaned via formats that n.courage "openess" [ie either comm technologies or uberwise] make 4 astoundingly n.teresting = fertile arenas.... [3:16 AM]<netwurker> x.actly, spot on.... [3:17 AM]<sandyb> so, a kind of open identity processing possible because of networked data environs [3:17 AM]<netwurker> my n.terest is x.ploding/merging identities that otherwise r viewed as sepa[dispa]rate.... [3:18 AM]<netwurker> yes, + i'm not just talking thru avenues specifically n.tended 2 n.courage it.... [3:19 AM]<netwurker> i guess u can think about as n.couraging the potential equiv of book m.mersivity [ie recoded reality/esc values].... [3:19 AM]<netwurker> collapsing identities + their *conceptions* [3:20 AM]<netwurker> eg my [now somewot outmoded] use of avatars via which i'd disperse my netwurks... [3:20 AM]<sandyb> Why collapsing identities as necessary to this immersivity? [3:22 AM]<netwurker> i guess i c fracturing of identity perception [ie me as geocentric, me as txt-m.mersed, me as MMOer] allows 4 a reassessment of definitions of self, of how we meld with tehne or communication channels that could used narrowly... [3:22 AM]<netwurker> techne, even [3:23 AM]<netwurker> [sheesh, i'm a type queen tonite:)] [3:23 AM]<sandyb> hee hee [3:23 AM]<sandyb> We're moving fast here, I wonder if Phillippe has questions? [3:24 AM]<netwurker> if we [as a species] try to reassess notions of closed identity, then i c we cood perhaps readdress social conditioning that allows for these identities 2 b used hierarchically, in pwer based stratified structures? [3:25 AM]<netwurker> sorry phil. this is heavy-duty stuff. [3:25 AM]<philippe_bootz> no for the moment. I follows [3:25 AM]<netwurker> sweet. any qs? can i b clearer? ;-) [3:25 AM]<sandyb> I agree, though. I want to hear more about MMO/gaming and how your thinking leads to those environs. [3:26 AM]<sandyb> Phillippe missed the earlier discussion, but you were talking of the clustering of players, the modes of presentation, and so on. My sense, also, is that you see your work moving in this direction? [3:27 AM]<philippe_bootz> yes but not with a question of identity [3:28 AM]<netwurker> i'm not sure if i'm keen to actively utilize MMOs as creatiff avenues as i have previously ie back in the late 90s i'd often n.terject in a chat stream in the MMO Everquest...normally with mezangelle l.ements, riffing off other players chats.... [3:29 AM]<netwurker> ..i'd also mangle EQ logs + reappropriate them + further n.ject them in2 email spaces via listservs..... [3:29 AM]<netwurker> ..i can tell u i had some whopping trolls attack me for those;) [3:29 AM]<sandyb> wow [3:29 AM]<sandyb> hee I bet. [3:29 AM]<netwurker> yeah, was kinda fun but also kinda diheartening ;-) [3:30 AM]<netwurker> dis_heartening, even [3:30 AM]<sandyb> painful [3:30 AM]<netwurker> i suspect my current mode of creatiff operations r more streamed 2wards soc_net [social.networking] placements.... [3:30 AM]<sandyb> facebook del.icio.us and so on? [3:31 AM]<netwurker> of course i have my livejournal entries which s.sentially have replaced my listerv participation since the crackdown/mainstreaming of multilogging [think nettime, fibreculture etc]... [3:32 AM]<netwurker> + yup, x.atly. MySpace, YouYube, delicious, tagcloud, friendster, flickr, orkut [oldskool;)]etc..... [3:33 AM]<sandyb> I see. Your livejournal is bloggish. Do you see it that way? Also, are you using/planning to us YouTube etc. in your work? How? [3:33 AM]<netwurker> ..i'm currently in the process of creating a project thats devoyed 2 faux [in terms of "true"(geophysical or concretely adherance)-identity only] soc_nets..... [3:34 AM]<netwurker> + yes, my lj is v bloggish...tho i term it as a reverse n.gineered weblog;) [3:35 AM]<sandyb> I'm not understanding "devoyed 2 faux"? [3:35 AM]<sandyb> is it devoted to faux? [3:36 AM]<netwurker> ..the faux.soc_net project is tentatively n.titled "feralC"...its basically a wiki that described the notion of members [they have various terms atm: such as infomorphics, dataphasics etc]..... [3:36 AM]<netwurker> it is! damn cold fingers ;-) [3:36 AM]<netwurker> ..that r reared via electronic social codings, similar to the phen of feral children...r u familiar with them? [3:37 AM]<netwurker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_children [3:37 AM]<sandyb> yes, wolfchildren und so weiter [3:37 AM]<netwurker> x.actly. [3:38 AM]<netwurker> ...so far i'm developing the identities, terminologies, + n.frastructure.....i can post a few x.tracts here if u like? [3:38 AM]<sandyb> YES PLEASE [3:38 AM]<netwurker> OK! [3:38 AM]<netwurker> ;-) [3:38 AM]<netwurker> phil u mind? [3:39 AM]<sandyb> <anticipation> [3:39 AM]<netwurker> [+ mind u this is just the stripped back non-networked version, so its a tad blahish]..... [3:39 AM]<sandyb> OK. <muffling anticipation> [3:40 AM]<netwurker> eheh [3:40 AM]<netwurker> i'l start with some of search terms/terminolgies without x.planations....[so skeletal at best in terms of meanings]... [3:41 AM]<netwurker> chars called after software customers [customisation of avatars/n.carnations] accounting meldish [3 chars sharing the same incarnality - identittys]-bugmenot style incrementalism socialphrenia conclobberation alt*true*ism spurcadian cycling liecra p[re]ost_loading assessments ridythms [rid of rhythms] [3:41 AM]<netwurker> -[just a grab of the unfolded terms]- [3:41 AM]<netwurker> some of those unpacked: [3:42 AM]<netwurker> [b warned this isn't linear, either;)]: [3:42 AM]<sandyb> ok [3:42 AM]<netwurker> _data spur[t]_ - key concept of socialphrenia that connects information via central notations which engage softwear appropriate 2 the terminology employed. replaced googlism in the early 2020s. data spurring can be realised by individual stimulation of an account, or cooperatively through multistimulation [ie many accounts working together, such as via a friends list (MySpace) or link-rapidity (SlashDotting). [3:42 AM]<netwurker> -- [3:42 AM]<netwurker> _liecra_ - the practice of egostretching identification through several spurcadian outputs eg liecraing base MMO char development extended via accounting in2 MySpace or flickr. [3:43 AM]<netwurker> -- [3:43 AM]<netwurker> _accounting_ - process of creating accounts that sych with an alt-extension of base persona identifiers. [3:43 AM]<netwurker> -- [3:43 AM]<netwurker> _ego-tracing_ - replaces non-networked standards of incremental persona assessment and formation ie behavioural markers, emotional regulation or intellectual functioning. [3:43 AM]<netwurker> -- [3:45 AM]<netwurker> if u can imagine those terms housed with a wiki that x.plains the feralC conditions/symptoms, then linked to various output from those n.tities it affects [which is where the soc_net stuff m.merges]. [3:45 AM]<netwurker> mezangelle will make an appearance here as well. [3:45 AM]<sandyb> Very very interesting. Ontology via categories of soc_net and cms. Hacking identity from framework up. [3:45 AM]<netwurker> [as in an eg of output from these n.tities]. [3:46 AM]<netwurker> yup, thats the plan :-) [3:46 AM]<netwurker> well part of it...i'm also wurking in angles that will [hopefully] reassess notions of dataflow/mining/flocking? [3:47 AM]<netwurker> any qs? [3:47 AM]<sandyb> Are the first set of terms, sans explanation, on the same level as the others (e.g. data spurt or liecra) [3:48 AM]<netwurker> no, these terms r category-based, they r linked in a tree.like associative pattern. its not hierarchical, s.pecially not here. i basicall random file-dumped some terms from the log, so they rn't in synch [3:49 AM]<sandyb> data spur is nice: spur is poke, pin, but also trace + spurt [3:49 AM]<netwurker> its difficult 2 m.agine withoutt he archite[x]cture i kn :-D [3:49 AM]<netwurker> yup, u got it ;-) [3:49 AM]<sandyb> liecra is the one i'm having trouble with. [3:50 AM]<sandyb> - is the key thing the extension/stretching into other spaces/media? [3:51 AM]<netwurker> ok, m.magine that u have profiles that denote a certain aspect/facet of ur identity [ie say a flickr account, or a social bookmarking site u contribute 2, or a blog.... [3:51 AM]<sandyb> ok [3:52 AM]<netwurker> ....then m.agine an aggregate of those characteristics or x.tensions/spikes that help shape a type of id. template].... [3:52 AM]<sandyb> ... possibly across multiple profiles / accounts...? [3:53 AM]<netwurker> then imagine either using them 2 creat a grand_mal type of identity construct or multi_face[t]d concept of a personality that would stretch beyond/within this? [3:53 AM]<netwurker> x.actly, thats it. [3:54 AM]<netwurker> like a n info_fingerprint...simialr to data mining but not 4 the purpose of moolah_generation, but as a way 2 construct [or deny] identity? [3:54 AM]<sandyb> Got it. Flickr + grand_mal is very appropriate seizure of terms. [3:54 AM]<sandyb> I [3:54 AM]<netwurker> ;-) [3:54 AM]<netwurker> tis. like schizoidal persona.tagging [3:55 AM]<sandyb> I'm thinking now of your earlier comments on "readdressing social conditioning that allows for ... identities 2 b used hierarchically, in pwer based stratified structures." Is this the direction of this work, would you say? [3:55 AM]<netwurker> ..but thru various formats/formulas/strats? [3:55 AM]<sandyb> Tagging the schizoid we are -- [3:55 AM]<netwurker> rn't we just :-) [3:56 AM]<netwurker> 2 b truthful, i'm not sure how much politicizing/agendering i can claim in my wurks, i rally just do it and then if it manifests it does...otherise i'd produce bland theme driven work which isn't my goal..... [3:56 AM]<sandyb> Understood. [3:56 AM]<sandyb> Still, exciting, it seems to me. [3:57 AM]<sandyb> I find soc_net the real direction of the net today. [3:57 AM]<netwurker> a type of social awareness[perhaps n.gineering] underlies wot i do, but i'm kinda loathe 2 pinpoint or wax lyrical about it in terms of it being still in gestation? [3:58 AM]<netwurker> oh yeah, totally exciting...i feel like i'm drifting in a soc_net c full of the next modality, the next shift of x.tended sapien consciousness:) [3:58 AM] * netwurker bignotes urself ;-) [3:58 AM]<sandyb> It seems to me that the soc_net pushes towards not theory-building in the old style, but aggregating ideas, knowledges [3:59 AM]<sandyb> So, it makes sense to me that there's no need to wax lyrical, as you say. More a question of what set of tags will come out? [3:59 AM]<netwurker> absolutely. also an n,.trinsic re.writing of distinctions, of canons, standards...is every1 is a producer/aggregator/n.former, where does the notion of a art_author-auteur lie? [4:00 AM]<netwurker> exactly, + wot ids or creations/clusters will result ;-) [4:00 AM]<sandyb> Yes - I wonder how this connects with Phillippe's work on the text-auteur [4:00 AM]<netwurker> phil! come on down! [4:01 AM]<philippe_bootz> I'm her(e no pb [4:01 AM]<netwurker> any tie-ins with ur work on txt-auteur? [4:02 AM]<netwurker> mebe no?;) [4:02 AM]<philippe_bootz> yes of course. today the interest in e-potry go to the text-auteur rather then the texte-à-voir [4:03 AM]<netwurker> how so? [4:03 AM]<philippe_bootz> and politic or social-hacking activity enter in this path as well as more semiotic approach [4:03 AM]<philippe_bootz> they are complementary [4:04 AM]<netwurker> social-hacking as in a type of codified transgression of techne? [4:04 AM]<netwurker> or of craticity or wot is terms acceptable outlets of it purrhaps? [4:04 AM]<netwurker> creativity even [4:04 AM]<philippe_bootz> there is nether transgression of techne [4:05 AM]<sandyb> Is the connection is between the performative sign and aggregation/tagging? [4:05 AM]<netwurker> so can u give a brief definition of soc_hacking? just wanna make sure i'm on the right doc/page;) [4:05 AM]<philippe_bootz> the usefull concept of sujet for us, I believe, is what Pierre Rabardel names "the capable sujet" [4:06 AM]<netwurker> my french is weak, unfortunately [4:07 AM]<philippe_bootz> I refer with social-hacking to activities that put in light the political dimension (in general sense) of net activity and the pb of appropriation (and my english is very approximative) [4:07 AM]<sandyb> sujet = subject? I think. But I'm not sure about "capable sujet." [4:08 AM]<sandyb> Phillippe, what would "capable" be here? [4:09 AM]<philippe_bootz> yes subjet. The capable subjet is a coànception that considers that a human, before knowing, constructs tools for action [4:10 AM]<philippe_bootz> in this way, a tool is made by the association of an artefact and mind representations [4:10 AM]<netwurker> so like we r pre-set for comprehension[s]? [4:11 AM]<sandyb> I see. So, not transgressions of techne but different kinds of associations of artefact and mind/concept (different capabilities). [4:11 AM]<philippe_bootz> a "transgression" is in fact an instrumental genesis : we change the actual destination of an artefact to create a new tool [4:11 AM]<netwurker> as in have a type of implicit awareness made up of template [artefact] and theory of mind? [4:11 AM]<netwurker> ahh yes. [4:12 AM]<netwurker> almost similar 2 a tipping_point [4:12 AM]<netwurker> ..of sorts;) [4:12 AM]<sandyb> I see. I wonder how this goes back to the earlier discussion of mezangelle vis a vis textual / chat environs. [4:12 AM]<netwurker> phil do u have any links for ur refs above? [4:12 AM]<sandyb> Phillippe, reminds me of Lerio-Gouran? (sp) [4:14 AM]<philippe_bootz> i can find link to a book in line but it is in french. But there are many works in instrumental psychology, many in english, initiated by vygotsky [4:15 AM]<netwurker> 4rm my end, i think anything that n.courages potentialies, unknowns, or play[like] b.haviour [ie similar 2 various communications/web.aps/codes/adjuncts can create] produces a type of trangression-state [as phil didn't intend above and i did;)]... [4:15 AM]<sandyb> OK. proximal development, scaffolding, etc. [4:15 AM]<netwurker> [and thx phil, will source] [4:15 AM]<sandyb> Well, this is very helpful and interesting. [4:15 AM]<sandyb> Are there other questions/interactions? [4:16 AM]<netwurker> ....curiosity is a key x.ploder here, 4 me...having the sense 2 absorb without relying on inbuild [pre]conceptions, n.joying the accident, the typo, the tense_changes, the 3am morning chats ;-) [4:17 AM]<netwurker> ..have an ability 2 d.volve from acceptbale definers/currents? [4:17 AM]<netwurker> accept.a.bale, even [4:17 AM]<sandyb> intensity of the typo/topo/tropos [4:17 AM]<netwurker> x.actly. [4:18 AM]<netwurker> + on that note, i'm getting a letronic wind-up in the background.... [4:18 AM]<netwurker> [ie phone;)] [4:18 AM]<sandyb> I think, because it's 415am here, we should say goodbye. [4:19 AM]<netwurker> thx u both 4 the flow. was n.teresting + n.gaging ;-) [4:19 AM]<sandyb> OK, will post this and it was excellent. [4:19 AM]<netwurker> hmm [4:19 AM]<netwurker> did u want me 2 make a copy of this transcript + edit the typos? [4:20 AM]<sandyb> Phillippe, if you want I can schedule one of these with you - if we did it earlier (your evening), we might get more people from the us [4:20 AM]<netwurker> would be more than happi 2 attend my.self ;-) [4:20 AM]<sandyb> well, i like the immediacy. i'm already saving / trnascript, but i lean towards minimal editing [4:20 AM]<sandyb> if that's ok with you [4:20 AM]<netwurker> of course;) [4:21 AM]<netwurker> all flow;0) [4:21 AM]<philippe_bootz> i must quit : goodby and we will continue these different paths by asynchronous communication [4:21 AM]<sandyb> OK. Thanks and by. <end transcript>
