Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285.
Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check
WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance,
dvds, etc. =============================================================

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:53:38 -0500
From: Pata de Perro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [LEADigitalWild] the wild as seen from the wild?

I have just returned from the Putumayo, on the foothills of the Andes mountains, doorway 
to the Amazon jungle in Colombia, where I spent 10 days drinking yage with a shaman.  
From there the perspective is quiet different. The putumayo happens to be one of the most 
biodiverse regions in the world, and "the wild" is definitely present.the wild 
we can see (even if there is much deforestation) and the wild we learn to see through the 
yage medicine (definitely sublime). There is no academia around .but there are other 
forms of knowledge that replace it.The knowledge of the wild itself, the knowledge of the 
different indigenous tribes that live in the region; Kofan, Inga, Kamsa and the knowledge 
of the plants, rocks, animals etc... Unfortunately none of the beholders of this 
knowledge will be participating in this online conversation. The wild has not been 
invited to take part. But, I understand it must be quiet complicated while standing in a 
US city to find representatives of the wild that would be interested in participating in 
these talks and I don't blame you.

Since the wild is not taking part in the discussion, very humbly I will try to 
transmit a bit of the knowledge that wilderness has given me ...certain plants, 
certain indigenous people.

The key question in this discussion seems to be whether or not humanity and 

(+ new technology) are a part of the wild or not and if the wild is 

Many indigenous people adhere to this first idea; that indigenous people are 
the people of nature and that westerners are somehow outside of nature - and 
that when the last of the indigenous people have been killed or absorbed into 
western culture, the planet as a living organism (or ecosystem) will die, as it 
will have lost one of the key elements to maintaining its already very 
deficient balance...

Western man is considered by some indigenous people to dwell outside of nature 
because he has somehow broken the laws of nature and lost harmony with nature. 
A frontier has been breached. This frontier marks for example the point whence 
human beings began to get sick - as it is considered that while harmony with 
nature is maintained there is no possibility of sickness. This breached 
frontier can also be noted by the loss of instinct (or sixth sense) on the part 
of humans - the many senses that all animals share like knowing what plants are 
beneficial for health (dogs know by instinct to eat grass to purge themselves) 
or if an earthquake is coming etc. we have lost long ago. We have to learn 
everything through others - an eye is closed within us that is open for other 

(Similar to the biblical idea of the loss of the garden of eden)

Also, according to a legend from the putumayo (oral tradition passed down for centuries = 
unwritten history) - the reason that the Europeans came to the Americas was because the 
indigenous people of the Americas broke the laws of nature and therefore opened the 
doorway that permitted the discovery and further corruption of the Americas by the 
Europeans. (According to this indigenous people remained in the "garden of 
eden" longer then us westerners - but today have also lost harmony with nature).

These are a few random stories and ideas I have heard in the Amazon region and 
which I find are related to the theme at hand.

In reference to the online conversation, I found Roger Malina's coments on dark matter 
and dark energy very interesting. I don't know if this energy / matter is necessarily 
dark or if it called dark by the astronomers because they do not understand it (dark 
could be considered also negative - air is not dark yet it is not visible) but it seems 
that finding out that we only perceive 3% of the wild and that 97% of it is 
"invisible" to us reaffirms what I learned in the putumayo and Amazonas through 
yage and oral tradition - that is -  that there are many dimensions other then ours and 
that there is much more then meets the eye - So perhaps this dark energy/ matter are 
those other dimensions? That we cannot perceive with the naked eye?

Reality is a question of perspective the indigenous perspective is different 
from the scientific perspective (but the same / only the terms change really) 
-(personally I find its also a more pleasant perspective as it is full of magic 
and limitless in possibilities; the world is what we make it threw our 
thoughts, legends and words). Everything exists potentially. When I asked a 
kogi mamo what he thought of computers he said that he had no problems with 
computers, that computers existed before they existed, because everything 
exists potentially, that the computers where sitting in the mountains.. So 
maybe dark matter/the wild is that potential as well? that potential everything?

To the kogi Indians for example there are 3 planes of vision - you can look at things inmense, like 
the sky, or look at things miniscule, like an ant walking around, or you can look at what they 
consider to be "our plane" - "our dimension" : the everyday actions of human 
life...This plane is of no interest to them because it is too familiar, knowledge resides in 
looking at the other planes.

It seems that western man has concerned him/herself mainly with this third 
plane - our environment, up until now (especially the artists / scientists go 
further) and along with it, a materialistic worldview (based on the physical) 
that is limiting. I agree that the wild is immense and unknown and I think that 
it would be important for furthering a better understanding of it, to explore 
other forms of knowledge acquisition. Forms of knowledge and languages of 
understanding that come from the people who have remained closer and longer to 
this wild than us westerners..

Vanessa Gocksch


You can download a PDF of texts spoken then transcribed from leaders of the 
indigenous tribes of the Sierra Nevada here: (it is not easy to find things 
writen by indigenous people)


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