I was a science major in college and went into biotech which is dominated by
men.  Your advice to me as a newcomer to just stick with HTML4 rather than
to try to learn the right way to use XHTML right off the bat reminded me of
the experiences I have had in science that I believe have been sexist.  Lots
of grown men behave like middle school boys that don't want to share their
toys with the girls.  Maybe you are wondering why I am not making quilts
with the girls instead of trying to construct a web page?  

I think I will start attending a local user group rather than using this
list as I think people behave differently face to face and maybe some women
will be there.  Thanks for those of you that have commented constructively
about IE and tidy.  I took an HTML II online course with HWG and they do not
even mention text editors exist and would have saved me a lot of time.  

I am just using Notepad now to write SCRICT code and rather than reaching
for a reference book to remember a small detail or rather than running it
through a validator, I thought a text editor might help. I can certainly
research text editors myself but thought my question would be interesting
for this list to address in terms of trying to stick to standards.  


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Newcomers and Web Standards

Matthew Cruickshank wrote:
> Lachlan Hunt wrote:
>> Yes.  Why should we attempt to hide the truth from them, especially 
>> when they're just starting out and they need to lose/avoid any bad 
>> habits and mistakes as quickly as possible.
> Yours is a fringe and pedantic opinion, and you're being ridiculously 
> harsh on XHTML.

I have not been harsh on XHTML at all, I do like XHTML and it does have 
a lot of benefits when used properly, but if it's going to be used, it 
really needs to be done right and fully understood for what it is, or it 
should not be used at all.

HTML is already broken beyond all repair because of all the broken 
implementations and people doing it wrongly without caring about the 
consequences, and I don't want that to happen with XHTML.  Although with 
the number of people jumping on the XHTML bandwagon just because it's 
the latest and greatest standard, believing the myths that it's widely 
supported, usable and that their doing it correctly, when the vast 
majority of authors clearly aren't, has already done more damage than good.

I might add that my "fringe and pedantic opinion" is based on fact, and 
that not one valid technical argument has yet been raised in this thread 
against any of the technical reasons I've posted.  Additionally, a 
significant portion of the replies against me have been little more than 
judgements about how appropriate it was or was not for me to give such 
advice to a newcomer; which is not very constructive at all.

> I'm glad that people have been speaking up so that hopefully Lori will 
> see that it's not so black and white an issue.

I'm happy for people to speak up and challenge my views; in fact I 
encourage it, that's part of what forums like this are for and opinions 
that can't stand up to such challenges are not worth retaining.

I realise the issue is not so black and white for some people, hence why 
this topic has been and will rehashed again and again on every forum, 
newsgroup, mailing lists, blog and whatever else around the world for a 
very long time.  So, let it be discussed, and let the newcomers benefit 
from such discussion, but lets keep the discussion on the issue, rather 
than attacking another person's views without backing up your own with 
valid, technical arguments.

Lachlan Hunt
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