Come off it. Under no circumstance has it ever cost us more to do it right than to do it poorly; shoddy workmanship always results in higher costs. If it is costing you too much to do it right, you are doing more than just your coding wrong.
On 10/25/07, Michael Kear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for your information, Rogier. Doesn't change my thinking though. > Firefox with the Firefox logo works how it's supposed to, so there is a > difference between the debian thing and the 'real' Firefox. > > And this difference isn't one we care about. > > First of all, if there are any users in that category, there isn't more > than > a handful. Secondly, they don't have to go to this page to use the site. > This is separate 'help' information. Thirdly anyone who experiences the > problem we were trying to solve can still navigate the site. > > So yes, it would be good to fix it. But there are far more pressing > issues > for us to work on and if any user finds they are experiencing the problem > this was about, we don't care now, since all the users reflected in our > site > stats are not experiencing the problem. > > Cost/benefit once again. > > Ideally, we'd like the site to have no issues at all. But out of 100,000 > users, 1 or 2 (at most!) might not be able to use the drop down menu to > navigate out of the self-running demonstration and have to use the back > button instead. If debian ever gets to the point in Australia where our > users start using it, the cost/benefit ratio might change, at which time > we > might revisit the decision to move on to other issues. > > Cheers > Mike Kear > Windsor, NSW, Australia > 0422 985 585 > Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer > AFP Webworks Pty Ltd > http://afpwebworks.com > Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Rogier Schoenmaker > Sent: Friday, 26 October 2007 5:03 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash > > Mike, > > Just for your information Iceweasel IS firefox, just with another name > (build from the firefox source by the debian team). Because of those > stupid American patent laws you can't use a name of software without a > logo and because the logo is copyrighted, debian doesn't wants it in > their O.S. > > fyi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceweasel > > I understand that you have to prioritize how your site works with > O.S.' es and browsers, but if you decide to use a plugin like flash > you should go for it completely or don't. > It's out of the question that users can't navigate your site, just > because of some fancy flash. > > But that's my 2 cents. > > Rogier. > > On 25/10/2007, Michael Kear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think its wonderful how, every time I post something to this list, > people > > will rush to tell me how we ought to be spending our scarce development > > dollars. > > > > Christian Montoya, why do you assume that we're so dumb we don't know > > anything about our customers? We have quite a large number of Firefox > > customers, but if they're using Firefox, the site works fine. I know > > because I've tested it in Firefox. I develop with Firefox. My > client's > > testing regime includes Firefox. There were several people on this > list > > who tested it in Firefox and didn't report any problems. The issue was > > raised by Roger who said there was a small problem with "Firefox > (IceWeasel) > > for debian" whatever that is, not Firefox. You accuse us of making > "poor > > assumptions" when that's indeed what you did in your patronising way. > > > > > > It might be true in big shops that there are unlimited development > dollars > > sufficient to allocate teams of people to iron out every last little > issue, > > but in small shops like mine (and they don't come smaller than my > > business!!) there isn't unlimited time available. > > > > Here's a lesson in business for some of you. There is a limited supply > of > > time and dollars, and most jobs have a deadline. If you're running a > > development shop for profit, there often comes a time when you have to > > accept there will be issues with your output, and as lon gas it doesn't > > impact unduly on your customers sometimes you have to just let the > issues > > remain in order to run the business. > > > > I can't afford to be spending time tracking down every last > problem. And > my > > client wont pay me to either. We make some compromise decisions along > the > > way. We will not even be testing our site in the browsers mentioned > by > > Roger: Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian, or Epiphany (whatever the hell > they > > are). I've never heard of those browsers and I surely doubt many of my > > client's customers have either. The site works how we want it to in > the > > major environments, and in the others it's still usable, if a little > quirky. > > > > > > That's where it's gonna stop while we move on to more important issues > like > > rebuilding the shopping cart that is showing signs of stress with the > > volumes we're getting, and redesigning the database which no longer > copes > > with the range of products we have to accommodate. > > > > Those of you who think the minimum standard is perfection, good for you. > > Well done, I salute you. I wish I had your set of deadlines and funding > to > > be able to do the same. Our standard is slightly lower at 'as good as > we > > can get it within the time and money allowed.' > > > > Cheers > > Mike Kear > > Windsor, NSW, Australia > > 0422 985 585 > > Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer > > AFP Webworks Pty Ltd > > http://afpwebworks.com > > Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On > > Behalf Of Christian Montoya > > Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 6:12 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On > > > Behalf Of Michael Kear > > > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:14 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash > > > > > Since we are likely to have perhaps 1 or 2 users only using any of > those > > > browsers, and by far the vast majority of our users are using > WindowsXP > > with > > > IE6 or IE7 (remember this is not a IT related site - our customers > are > > > tshirt retailers and advertising agencies) I've decided the > cost/benefit > > of > > > fixing that isn't worth it. > > > > I work with a 6 non-techie "business types" who are all involved in > > advertising/licensing related functions and they all use Firefox by > > choice. Have you ever asked your users what they actually use? Do you > > have any stats on browsers (Google analytics will tell you this)? If > > not, you are just making a poor assumption. > > > > -- > > -- > > Christian Montoya > > christianmontoya.net > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************* > > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ******************************************************************* > > > > > > > ******************************************************************* > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ******************************************************************* > > > > > ******************************************************************* > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ******************************************************************* > > ******************************************************************* List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *******************************************************************
