Joe, Sorry, the on list response was in responses to Steve's question which was made on this forum.
Other questions I have replied to you directly. However one I will reply to here. A35JT's peak QSO rate was 340/hr to Japan on 12m from memory. We regularly ran at 150-200+ an hour for expected periods with 230 being a fairly common average in good propagation. We usually ran about 3-4 slots. We were balancing slot count against throughput and would manipulate the slot count to maximise QSO completion rates. As the EU path in particular (one of our key targets) is a difficult one from A3 and signals were not strong, at times we dropped to one slot just to ensure QSO completion. This was all based on a 500W station with beams or phased arrays on the low bands. In comparison our CW operation also ran at around 150-200/hr and voice was between 100-140 peaking at 240/hr when conditions were really good and we had enough callers. In that sense, we were justified in running FOXHOUND mode. Anytime we could get over 50 QSOs an hour or tried the main channels and caused congestion with more than 5-6 callers chasing us we would move to FOX mode. Often it only took 4-5 minutes on the main channel for the congestion to start, which prompted us to announce using freetext a switch to FOX mode and the frequency we were going to QSY to on the band. Is fox mode being over used? In point of fact I don’t think so. You almost never see home stations running it. Only portable operations to top 120DXCCs typically go to the effort. What is noticeable however is the number of expeditions, big and small in terms of operator count, around in general at the moment. It is a smorgasboard for DX Chasers and FOX mode is playing a big part in the success of that. I don’t see it needs to be curtailed, but if it can be improved to manage channel contention a little better then thats a good thing. Regards, Grant -----Original Message----- From: Joe Taylor [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, 23 November 2019 1:40 AM To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 Fox and Hound Mode - FOX Mode Operator Grant -- You asked me to take our exchanges off-list, but then you seem to have reverted to the list. So for the record, I'll respond here. As I explained to you off-list, the ALL.TXT file in WSJT-X 2.1.0 provides the information you asked for, in real time. Perhaps we can furnish this information in a way you would find more convenient, in some future release. We have not heard from other Fox operators that this should be a high priority. Yes, especially with heavy Rx traffic and a slow computer, times listed for late decodes are sometimes incorrectly listed in ALL.TXT with the timestamp of the next T/R sequence. We consider ALL.TXT to be an undocumented feature. It's there mainly for diagnostic purposes, and (as they say) "its contents may change without notice." I have not paid close attention to the extent of Fox-and-Hound usage in recent months, but my general impression is that it may be somewhat over-used. What were the peak and average hourly QSO rates at A35JT ? How many Tx slots did you generally use? Did you consider using FT4 rather than FT8 with NSlots > 1 ? -- 73, Joe, K1JT On 11/21/2019 9:17 PM, Grant Willis wrote: > Steve, > > Sorry that is my mistake. It was an incorrect memory based on when I was > reviewing the ALL.TXT file trying to find broken log records when we got > home after A35JT. (I had discovered that ALL.TXT didnt store the TX > strings from the FOX transmissions - instead it only stored one string > and not the contents of the up to 5 FOX TX channels). I incorrectly > turned my conclusion of 5 weeks ago that ALL.TXT was incomplete when it > came to tracing broken log entries into the incorrect memory/assumption > that ALL.TXT didnt have the fox band activity data in it at all. > > My apologies for making an invalid later assumption that ALL.TXT didnt > have FOX channel traffic at all. Goes to show one should never assume > anything as it makes one look like an ASS - sorry about that. An > unnecessary distraction to the real debate about band activity > visualisation in FOX mode. > > So to clarify - ALL.TXT does appear to log the FOX Channel receive > activity and running a tail job in a separate window would provide band > activity monitoring needed to detect channel collisions. > > The debate however then becomes is that something that the majority of > FOX operators would know how to do? My suggestion is that it isn't. > Finding a better solution to warning FOX operators that there are people > on their channel calling other expeditions is still very important in my > mind. Taking rows from the Band activity where the FOX station callsign > is not even present and putting them into the RX activity window would > be a good start to enabling a channel self monitoring function inside > the software IMHO. > > As an aside - looking back at ALL.TXT - it does raise a point. The > contents of the TX channels that are sent over the air in FOX mode are > not being recorded in ALL.TXT currently. Is that by design or is that a BUG? > > In fact it is very strange that RX records are still being written when > I an transmitting in the next cycle. I enclose a sample of my ALL.TXT > file here. It might reveal more of whats going on? I can send the whole > file along with the FOXQSO.TXT file if it would help try to get a handle > on whats actually going on with ALL.TXT? > > 190929_003930 14.067 Rx FT8 -2 0.0 1895 A35JT VK5BC PF95 > 190929_003930 14.067 Tx FT8 0 0.0 538 VK3BDX A35JT RR73 > <-- I answered more than VK3BDX in this over > 190929_003930 14.067 Rx FT8 -2 0.4 2112 A35JT 6K5YIA PM45 > <-- am still receiving even though my TX is up for the next over? > 190929_003930 14.067 Rx FT8 11 -0.0 2294 A35JT XE1TD DL80 > 190929_003930 14.067 Rx FT8 9 0.0 2460 A35JT VE7SV CN99 > 190929_003930 14.067 Rx FT8 -14 0.0 2972 A35JT N5WXY R-09 > 190929_003930 14.067 Rx FT8 3 0.0 3071 A35JT JH0INP PM96 > 190929_003930 14.067 Rx FT8 -14 0.2 1037 A35JT VK3GWS QF22 > 190929_003930 14.067 Rx FT8 -8 0.1 1088 A35JT JG3KLF PM74 > 190929_003930 14.067 Rx FT8 -19 0.0 1544 A35JT N2AJ FN30 > 190929_003945 14.067 Rx FT8 -4 0.0 1019 A35JT K9NU EN55 > 190929_003945 14.067 Rx FT8 -9 0.1 1088 A35JT JG3KLF PM74 > 190929_003945 14.067 Rx FT8 -4 0.1 1274 A35JT W7DN CN85 > 190929_003945 14.067 Rx FT8 -10 0.4 1337 A35JT KI5BLU CN87 > 190929_003945 14.067 Rx FT8 5 0.1 1388 A35JT VE3VEE EN94 > 190929_003945 14.067 Rx FT8 -4 0.2 1495 A35JT PP2FRS GH63 > 190929_003945 14.067 Rx FT8 -7 -0.2 1599 A35JT K5GS DM42 > 190929_003945 14.067 Rx FT8 1 0.0 1689 A35JT JR1JYR PM95 > 190929_004000 14.067 Tx FT8 0 0.0 538 VK3BDX A35JT RR73 <-- > same string grabbed again by the SW but I answered others > 190929_004000 14.067 Rx FT8 -2 0.0 1821 A35JT KQ5M DM65 <--- > still receiving things after I started TX > 190929_004000 14.067 Rx FT8 -6 -0.0 1895 A35JT VK5BC PF95 > 190929_004000 14.067 Rx FT8 3 0.0 2057 VK6MIT AA4M DM42 > 190929_004000 14.067 Rx FT8 -8 0.4 2112 A35JT 6K5YIA PM45 > 190929_004000 14.067 Rx FT8 6 0.0 2295 A35JT XE1TD DL80 > 190929_004000 14.067 Rx FT8 1 0.0 2459 A35JT VE7SV CN99 > 190929_004000 14.067 Rx FT8 -13 0.0 2510 A35JT N5WXY R-13 > 190929_004000 14.067 Rx FT8 -15 0.2 2993 A35JT JA6KLP PM53 > 190929_004000 14.067 Rx FT8 4 0.0 3072 A35JT JH0INP PM96 > 190929_004000 14.067 Rx FT8 -11 0.3 1036 A35JT VK3GWS QF22 > 190929_004015 14.067 Rx FT8 4 0.0 596 A35JT NU1O R-15 > 190929_004015 14.067 Rx FT8 2 0.0 1018 A35JT K9NU EN55 > 190929_004015 14.067 Rx FT8 -11 0.3 1337 A35JT KI5BLU CN87 > 190929_004015 14.067 Rx FT8 -12 0.2 1358 A35JT YV5AJ FK60 > 190929_004015 14.067 Rx FT8 2 0.7 1514 A35JT VK3OD QF22 > 190929_004015 14.067 Rx FT8 -3 0.1 1598 A35JT K5GS DM42 > 190929_004015 14.067 Rx FT8 -15 0.4 1684 A35JT W9ZCL EN62 > 190929_004015 14.067 Rx FT8 3 0.0 1774 A35JT W5XU EM40 > 190929_004015 14.067 Rx FT8 1 0.0 1821 A35JT KQ5M DM65 > 190929_004030 14.067 Tx FT8 0 0.0 538 VK3BDX A35JT RR73 > 190929_004030 14.067 Rx FT8 -4 -0.0 1895 A35JT VK5BC PF95 > 190929_004030 14.067 Rx FT8 3 0.0 2057 VK6MIT AA4M DM42 > 190929_004030 14.067 Rx FT8 -1 0.5 2117 A35JT JF1HQC PM96 > 190929_004030 14.067 Rx FT8 6 -0.0 2294 A35JT XE1TD DL80 > 190929_004030 14.067 Rx FT8 3 -0.0 2458 A35JT VE7SV CN99 > 190929_004030 14.067 Rx FT8 -18 0.2 2993 A35JT JA6KLP PM53 > 190929_004030 14.067 Rx FT8 3 0.0 3071 A35JT JH0INP PM96 > 190929_004030 14.067 Rx FT8 -15 -0.0 3206 A35JT JF7ELG QM05 > 190929_004030 14.067 Rx FT8 -17 -0.3 3235 A35JT JK1OZS QM05 > 190929_004045 14.067 Rx FT8 10 -0.2 1114 A35JT KD0PO EM24 > 190929_004045 14.067 Rx FT8 -3 0.1 1274 A35JT W7DN CN85 > 190929_004045 14.067 Rx FT8 -8 0.4 1337 A35JT KI5BLU CN87 > 190929_004045 14.067 Rx FT8 4 0.5 1517 A35JT N5DG EM20 > 190929_004045 14.067 Rx FT8 6 0.1 1602 A35JT VE3VEE EN94 > 190929_004045 14.067 Rx FT8 -15 -0.2 1684 A35JT W9ZCL EN62 > 190929_004045 14.067 Rx FT8 1 0.1 1775 A35JT W5XU EM40 > 190929_004045 14.067 Rx FT8 0 0.0 1821 A35JT KQ5M DM65 > 190929_004045 14.067 Rx FT8 -3 -0.0 1895 A35JT VK5BC PF95 > 190929_004045 14.067 Rx FT8 4 0.0 2057 VK6MIT AA4M DM42 > > happy to provide more samples if it helps? > > Regards, > Grant VK5GR > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 9:29 AM Steven Franke via wsjt-devel > <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Grant, > > > On Nov 21, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Grant VK5GR <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > Folks, > > > > ALL.TXT is not populated when in FOX mode in 2.1.0 - I checked > the logs from > > A35JT. Only when we were in standard mode was it being updated. > > I am not able to reproduce this. > > I have just tested v2.1.0 here on Linux and separately on MacOS. In > both cases I find that all decodes are written to ALL.TXT while > running in Fox mode. I tested this in two ways: (i) running as Fox > in monitor mode while tuned to 14.074 MHz and (ii) using two > instances of WSJT-X, one Fox and one Hound, and connecting the two > instances using a loopback connection. This second loopback setup > was used so that I could run as Fox while transmitting CQs every > other sequence. In both cases, all of the Fox’s decodes were written > to ALL.TXT, whether the decode was addressed to Fox or not. > > 73 > Steve, k9an > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > _______________________________________________ wsjt-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel _______________________________________________ wsjt-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
