Hey Neil, Don't worry - bubble not burst. I'm choosing to not pick a fight about the specific licensing of the binaries. Arguments about licensing are full of opinions and not very fun. They usually end up in flame wars and cold disagreement, as I think we can see from the previous discussion. I have expressed my opinions via other media as this is not the appropriate stage and people are welcome to disagree via those media.
Putting licensing aside and coming back to more solid facts and discussion of development - we can't include the binaries without the source in Debian (and secondly, we can't include them in debian-nonfree repo without explicit permission to redistribute them from Joe) - this has been said by another Debian maintainer on the list already. It is standard policy for Debian, part of our social contract and free software guidelines [1] that drive the OS. This means that everyone who chooses to 'apt install wsjtx' or use an in built appstore from our package of rc5 onwards *doesn't* get superfox signing and doesn't get the protection from pirates the feature is meant to offer *unless* they are linux-capable enough to source the binaries for their platform and put them in the correct folder themselves. We can put in an interim solution of shipping something in the nonfree repo which myon asked earlier but didn't get a response to. This flows down to users of Ubuntu, Mint, Raspberry Pi OS and other systems, which doesn't seem very fair. Also, as far as I'm aware the binaries don't support all of the architectures that we do, so it limits users from being able to play with weird and wonderful machines like risc-v! [1] https://www.debian.org/social_contract Cheers, -- Hibby Debian Developer Packet Radioist MM0RFN On Wed, 24 Jul 2024, at 2:32 PM, Neil Zampella via wsjt-devel wrote: > > Hate to burst your bubble, the binaries do NOT have to be stripped, as they > can be included as an exception to the GPL license. > > Neil, KN3ILZ > > On 7/24/2024 4:05 AM, Hibby wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Turns out you can't tell furries that a superfox is proprietary! >> >> https://sprocketfox.io/xssfox/2024/07/24/superflawed/ >> >> After I mentioned my disappointment and concern about the implications of >> closed binaries in this week's zero retries [1], including making users in >> debian, ubuntu, raspi, etc second class, superfoxless citizens in the wsjt-x >> universe [2], some friends of mine took it upon themselves to see if a free >> implementation was possible. >> >> The above post is the outcome of a couple of days of research. >> >> [1] https://www.zeroretries.org/p/zero-retries-0161 >> [2] >> https://salsa.debian.org/debian-hamradio-team/wsjtx/-/blob/debian/latest/debian/changelog?ref_type=heads >> >> Cheers, >> -- >> Hibby >> Debian Developer >> Packet Radioist >> MM0RFN >> >> On Sun, 21 Jul 2024, at 5:46 PM, Jakob Ketterl DD5JFK via wsjt-devel wrote: >>> Hello Joe, >>> >>>> I have to say I don't remember your ever having contributed usefully to >>>> the open-source WSJT project, so I consider your >>>> complaints-to-contributions ratio to be rather high. Perhaps I am being >>>> unfair to your ultimately friendly purposes for the benefit of Amateur >>>> Radio. >>> >>> I'm not surprised you don't remember. After all, it's just been a minor >>> patch so far. I don't think that should matter though, I'm not trying to >>> complain, I'm trying to participate in this debate. I'm trying to back up >>> my arguments with facts, and I'm expressing my opinions as based on my >>> understanding of software licensing. I'm not the guy that's intending to >>> cause trouble here, I'm here to tell you that your current situation is >>> inviting trouble. >>> >>>> We're working hard to meet deadlines related to the Jarvis expedition's >>>> schedule. Please be patient for us to catch up with clear and complete >>>> licensing statements. >>> >>> I don't share the particular interest in DXpeditioning, and as such I don't >>> have a great personal interest in the fox/hound or superfox mode in general. >>> >>>> In the meantime, try saving a few *.wav files when monitoring K8R, or >>>> ask for some example files recorded by someone else. Then execute the >>>> standalone SuperFox decoder sfrx, using something like the following >>>> simple command at your bash shell prompt, and see the subsequent output. >>>> >>>> $ sfrx 240720_132400.wav >>>> 132400 -7 0.3 750 ~ JH6KOQ K8R RR73 >>>> 132400 -7 0.3 750 ~ N0AN K8R RR73 >>>> 132400 -7 0.3 750 ~ YO3ICT K8R RR73 >>>> 132400 -7 0.3 750 ~ IK0NKA K8R +01 >>>> 132400 -7 0.3 750 ~ DF2RQ K8R +10 >>>> 132400 -7 0.3 750 ~ OH3FVP K8R +04 >>>> 132400 -7 0.3 750 ~ W2ZQ K8R +03 >>>> K8R verified >>>> >>>> If need be, I will send you a few files. >>> >>> Thanks, it's nice you're taking the time to show me how it works, but it's >>> not necessarily what I intended to happen. It's not important for me to >>> understand how these decoders works, it's important that such information >>> is made available to the general audience, maybe packaged together with the >>> binaries. This information may eventually become relevant for my work on >>> OpenWebRX, but given that I've worked with the other decoders I'm pretty >>> sure I would have been able to figure this out myself. At this time I'm >>> trying to make a different point: the lack of such information makes it >>> very easy to argue that the superfox binaries are not, as claimed, >>> standalone, thus forcing you to release their code. You may disagree on >>> that, which is fine for me, but it's also kind of a great risk to take for >>> some missing documentation. >>> >>> The same goes for the binary packages. It's quite risky to shove these >>> binaries out the door just because they're needed for a DXpedition while at >>> the same time not taking care of the licensing. >>> >>> 73s >>> Jakob DD5JFK >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> wsjt-devel mailing list >>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel >
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