Hi Lance, I'm glad the proof of concept worked out and proved useful for the QSO flow and the QSO count during H44GJ.
You're right, we did rely on the internet. Short of changing the Q65 protocol, which we did not want to do, there was no other way to get this done. Q65 does have room for a flag: the encoder turns the 77-bit message into a 78-bit payload, so there is one spare bit. But using it is still a protocol change, and that has to come from K1JT so that all stations stay compatible. We had limited time and put the whole thing together in less than two weeks, so that you could take advantage of it on your trip. I agree that over-the-air feedback is the better solution. It just wasn't in the cards this time, for the reasons above. Besides helping the QSO flow, there are additional benefits: the data collected can be used to look at the best operating times, to compare stations and antennas, and to learn more from it in general. This was an interesting project, very much in the spirit of moving the technology forward. I hope it motivates others to step up as well. 73, Andreas, N6NU On Tue, Sep 15, 2026 at 5:04 PM Lance Collister, W7GJ <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Andreas et al, > > Thanks very much for implementing the ability in WSJT-X IMPROVED to see > which callers > in the pileup were copying me. This was extremely helpful during the > recent H44GJ 6m > EME DXpedition, and will be of great help in any VHF EME DXpeditions > utilizing Q65 > mode ;-) I do have a few comments and suggestions based on my experience > with it > during the DXpedition. > > I love the way the flags are shown in on the waterfall and on the Active > Stations > List (provided the station has already been decoded). However, what would > be more > helpful is not necessarily knowing what stations decoded my signals, but > at what > frequency offsets Q65 Signals were detected. In other words, the offset > frequencies > for stations who received the red spikes when they decoded my signal. I > assume that > this information is already generated by their decoder since their program > displays > the red spikes on their waterfall. It may be that there could be some sort > of > threshold level set by the user to determine how strong the red spikes > have to be > able the general background noise before the flag is set that they > received a red > spike, although perhaps it could simply be a simple yes or no indicator. > As I > understand it, the red spike indicates that a Q65 signal was detected by > recognition > of the time sync signal. The advantage here is that if I were able to > identify new > stations who were seeing my Q65 trace (but not necessarily able to decode > it), then > they probably would be able to decode me if I replied to them. And I would > also > probably be able to decode them (and add them to the Active Stations List) > if I > correctly entered their callsign and grid into the DX CALL and GRID boxes. > So in this > way, it would be possible to contact stations a couple dB weaker. > > I think it probably would be possible to simply use that to trigger your > alert > system, just as you currently use the decoded callsign to trigger the > alerts. > However, that brings me to another point. > > As I have explained previously, I am not in favor of transmitting the > actual > callsigns of stations decoded via the internet. This raises the question > of whether > the contact ws actually made by the radio or whether people saw > information on the > internet and responded based on what they assumed would trigger a contact. > For > example, I had a couple stations see that I had decoded them (among > others) and > assume that I must have sent them TX3 (R GRID), so they just sent me TX4 > (calls and > RRR) even though I had never sent them TX3. The program wants to > automatically log > the contact when it decodes TX4 from somebody, regardless of whether I had > ever sent > them a TX3 or not, so they could sneak an invalid contact into the log. > That is why I > am NOT in favor of sharing callsigns on the internet. Just sharing the > offset > frequencies without callsigns would be a step in the right direction, I > think, but > the best solution would be not to rely on the internet at all. > > If a station receives a red spike from me, the much preferred action would > be for > them to send the flag indicating that reception in a radio transmission to > me. If I > could see THAT flag on a certain frequency (or on the ASL, if I had > already > previously decoded that caller), then I could be assured that the chances > were pretty > good that they would decode calls from me if I replied to them. How could > this be > done with great sensitivity? > > K1JT already showed how this could be done without using any more bits of > information > when he developed JT65. His ingenious solution was to use the inverted > time sync > information as the only difference between TX1 (calls and grid) and TX2 > (calls and > grid plus OOO report). If this were applied here to Q65 Pileup Mode, the > standard TX2 > (calls and grid) could be changed to indicate TX2 with the added > information that > they were receiving me will enough to probably decode if I replied to them > with their > callsign and grid. > > I appreciate the fact that there might have to be a second decoder pass to > check for > messages that might have the flag of the inverse time sync information. > But to me, > that would be much more preferable, as the complete contact information > could be kept > to the radio signals, and not subject to potential abuse through the > internet. It > also means that it would not be necessary to have internet capability at > both > stations, although it certainly is helpful to be able to learn what > frequency slots > are being used by particular stations. > > So, with full appreciation of the great software tools that have been > added so far, > and how very helpful they have been shown to be, I suggest that the next > step would > be to insure more valid radio contacts by eliminating the display of > actual contact > information over the internet. Thanks again for all your great efforts, > and your > consideration in the next step to move this very powerful Q65 PILEUP mode > forward. > > GL and VY 73, Lance > > > > > On 9/15/2026 22:16:34, Andreas Junge wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > since Lance's expedition was the main reason to implement the "Who heard > me" > > feature I'll take the opportunity to present a few statistics: > > > > H44GJ was heard by 143 Stations and Lance decoded 195. > > > > Over the last 30 days the site has seen 831 EME call signs. > > image.png > > I just added a simple "stats/directory" page to the site: > > > > https://livecq.n6nu.org/directory?band=50&seg=50&days=90 > > <https://livecq.n6nu.org/directory?band=50&seg=50&days=90> > > > > 73, Andreas, N6NU > > > > _._,_._,_ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Groups.io Links: > > > > You receive all messages sent to this group. > > > > View/Reply Online (#2338) <https://groups.io/g/MagicEME/message/2338> | > Reply to > > Group > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Re:%20%5BMagicEME%5D%20Stats%20from% > 20livecq.n6nu.org> > > | Reply to Sender > > <mailto:[email protected] > ?subject=Private:%20Re:%20%5BMagicEME%5D%20Stats%20from%20livecq.n6nu.org> > > > | Mute This Topic <https://groups.io/mt/121269966/4876986> | New Topic > > <https://groups.io/g/MagicEME/post> > > Your Subscription <https://groups.io/g/MagicEME/editsub/4876986> | > Contact Group > > Owner <mailto:[email protected]> | Unsubscribe > > <https://groups.io/g/MagicEME/unsub> [[email protected]] > > > > _._,_._,_ > > -- > Lance Collister, W7GJ(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, > 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M, TX5K, KH8/W7GJ, V6M, T8GJ, VK9CGJ, VK9XGJ, C21GJ, CP1GJ, > S79GJ, FO/W7GJ, TX7MB, TO7GJ, 3B9GJ, ZD9GJ, H40GJ, H44GJ) > P.O. Box 73 > Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073 > USA > TEL: (406) 626-5728 > QTH: DN27ub > URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj > 2m DXCC #11 - 6m DXCC #815 - FFMA #7 > > Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the new Magic Band EME > email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web > page (above)! > >
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