[1:55] * Now talking in #xap [1:55] * Statistics: 1 Ops, 3 Users (Total: 4)
[1:55] [freenode-connect VERSION] [1:55] * coach ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #xap [1:57] * bbuffone ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #xap [2:01] <coach> Scribe: Scott Boyd. [2:02] <coach> Agenda: [2:02] <coach> [2:02] <coach> Identify scribe [2:02] <coach> Quick status update [2:02] <coach> Nexaweb code commit/packaging etc status –Coach [2:02] <coach> Apache infrastructure status (account setup, email setup, SVN, SSH, etc) – Cliff Schmidt [2:02] <coach> Apache Process Overview [2:02] <coach> Cliff Schmidt [2:02] <coach> XAP process discussion [2:02] <coach> Q & A [2:03] * JMargaris ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #xap [2:04] <sboyd> Coach: quick status update from nexaweb: initial code, demos, samples and documentation are ready for commit [2:06] <JMargaris> yes, it does [2:07] <sboyd> Cliff: reviewed the distinction of the 4 mailing lists [2:07] <sboyd> Cliff: status of contributor accounts: everyone but Animesh and John's accounts are set up because the contributor forms were not recieved by the secretary in time [2:08] <sboyd> Cliff: SVN and apache infrastructure should be set up and ready to go today, so tomorrow we can move forward with the initial code contribution [2:09] <sboyd> Cliff: Defect tracking (Jira) needs to be set up as well, and Cliff will take care of it [2:09] <coach> Action: coach to send website draft to Cliff for review and commit. [2:11] <sboyd> Cliff: many projects use SVN to store both the source for the website and the result for the build. In these cases, the result of the build gets checked into another repository to get published. [2:12] <sboyd> Bob: what's required to trigger the publish? [2:12] <sboyd> Cliff: some specific permissions/Karma to the right repository [2:13] <sboyd> Coach: an automated task looks for updates nightly, so its just a matter of getting the changes to this location for them to get published [2:14] <sboyd> Cliff: many projects assign a release manager. you don't have to pick anyone now, but often projects have a single person who coordinates this effort so they can get good at it. [2:16] <sboyd> Cliff: switching gears to talk about the apache process. ApacheCon (in Dublin in a few weeks) has many helpful sessions on various apache processes. Check out www.apachecon.com for more details. [2:17] <sboyd> Cliff: lets review some apache documents [2:18] <sboyd> Cliff: How the ASF works -- http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html [2:19] <sboyd> Cliff: Being a committer is having Karma to a certain part of the project to make code changes. Being on PMC is having the authority to make decisions at the Project level - often made up of a large number of committers. Different projects run it differently. [2:19] * peter_eacmen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #xap [2:20] <sboyd> Cliff: As an incubated project, the XAP PMC is the Incubator project. The only things the Incubator PMC will be concerned with are legal issues and making sure that the project is run consistantly with other Apache projects [2:21] <peter_eacmen> hey guys [2:21] <JMargaris> Hey Peter [2:21] <coach> Hey peter. Can you call in? [2:21] <peter_eacmen> i am in [2:22] <sboyd> Cliff: The PMC also gets involved in the graduation process. This process usually takes around 6-12 months, and may result in the project moving under the auspice of another project, or to become a top level project in its own right. [2:22] <peter_eacmen> i connected late [2:22] <sboyd> Michael Turyn: what are the requirements for graduation? [2:22] <coach> peter - can you see the IRC log from the part of the meeting that you missed? [2:23] <peter_eacmen> is it posted somewhere? [2:24] <coach> It should be in the IRC channel. If you don't see it, that means IRC channel only displays the latest content to you when you joined in? [2:24] <sboyd> Cliff: the main thing aside from the legal issues around licensing, is the community aspect. Has this project shown over many months that its encouraging to new people showing up, the meritocracy values are demonstrated, collaboration etc... [2:24] <JMargaris> we can post it someplace later or send it to you [2:25] <peter_eacmen> yah i am just using X-Chat, not sure how to do that [2:25] <sboyd> Cliff: also a requirement that there are at least 3 different groups of interest guiding the project -- all Nexaweb employees/contractors would count as a single interest group [2:25] <sboyd> Cliff: additinoinally, have other people been attracted to the project and become active members [2:25] <sboyd> Cliff: the chair of each PMC is an officer of the foundation [2:27] <sboyd> Cliff: every group needs a place for private conversations (e.g. someone is distruptive in the general mailing list, should we grant more karma to another person), these conversations should be held in the private mailing group with the prefix ppmc [2:27] <sboyd> Cliff: this also gets people in the habit of figuring out how PMCs work [2:28] <sboyd> Cliff: IRC is better than phonecalls because we have people who speak other languages and live in different timezones [2:29] <sboyd> Cliff: Decision making: for something like a release, you will have a vote. Votes usually have a +1, +0, 0, -0, -1 ranging from enthusiastic yes to a veto. [2:30] <sboyd> Coach: What is the process for exercising veto right? Are there any guidelines around vetos? I could see the possibility that a veto may hold progress in some cases. [2:32] <sboyd> Cliff: vetos are very rare. Sometimes people will give a -1 with a disclaimer on something that should be fixed. An example may be on a vote to release, one person votes -1 because some set of files don't have the correct license disclaimers, but they'll change their vote once the issue is addressed [2:33] <sboyd> Coach: to summarize, a veto should always have a helpful suggestion to resolve the percieved problem [2:34] <sboyd> Cliff: back to graduation - diversity in committers is good, but Apache doesn't really look at who your employer is. Apache realizes that the initial code contribution comes from Nexaweb, and legally its important to recognize this fact. [2:35] <sboyd> Cliff: However, contributors are judged on their own contributions. Do they seem to be acting for the good of the company, or for the good of the project? [2:36] <cliffs> http://apache.org/dev/#committers [2:36] <sboyd> Cliff: its a great thing if the success of the project is helpful to the success of a sponsoring company, but the companies interest should not hijack the progress of the project. [2:37] <sboyd> Cliff: read through all the links on the committers page, and glance at the rest of the page (e.g. releases, managing the project website) [2:37] <cliffs> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html [2:38] <sboyd> Cliff: Incubation policy - some of this I've already covered [2:39] <sboyd> Cliff: overview of the process - incubated project, candidate project, sometimes referred to as a "podling", takes about 6-9 months to graduate from the incubator [2:39] <sboyd> Cliff: since none of the top level projects domain made sense to sponser XAP, the Incubator project was chosen to incubate XAP [2:40] <sboyd> Cliff: if Kabuki had taken off a year ago and had graduated to a top level project, XAP would have made sense to incubate under Kabuki [2:41] <sboyd> Bob: What happens when a project stagnates? For example, we have a dependency on the Kabuki project [2:42] <sboyd> Cliff: first thing to do is to subscribe to their dev list - express our interest in the project and find out whats going on? [2:42] <sboyd> Bob: is it possible to fail the incubator? [2:43] <sboyd> Cliff: if there is no activity, and a lot of time goes by, projects may be dropped from the incubator. Sometimes though, it just takes a while for a project to get into a rhythm of activity. In early stages, its because the committers aren't contributing. In later stages, its because the project isn't making any progress. [2:44] <sboyd> Cliff: Review -- every project at apache, every one of the 35 top level projects, we have over 100 products, but just about 35 top level projects [2:45] <sboyd> Cliff: each PMC needs to make a summary report to the apache board about activity, legal issues, etc about whats going on with the project [2:46] <sboyd> Cliff: because the Incubator project has so many sub-projects, it will send out a request for status to all its sub-projects. New projects like XAP require a report every single month. It might be best to come from a committer, but I can take a stab at it for this month. [2:47] <sboyd> Cliff: usually this request is sent to the general incubator list, so the more active participants in a project should be subscribed to this list to be aware of issues like this [2:47] <sboyd> Coach: how do we add XAP to the list of incubated projects? [2:48] <sboyd> Cliff: this will get taken care of in the next few days along with the infrastructure setup [2:49] <sboyd> Cliff: I'll set this up initially, but you guys as committers should make sure this is updated. I recommend updating it with each monthly report, and especially when you push for graduation after 6-9 months before you ask the PMC board to review you. [2:50] <sboyd> Cliff: we need to do a monthly report for the first 3 months, but after that once every 3 months [2:51] <sboyd> Cliff: podling constraints is a section in the incubator policy [2:52] <sboyd> Cliff: branding is important -- we're a brand new project just starting up, no history of past projects. Apache doesn't want a bad project to reflect negatively on Apache, so there is a disclaimer for incubated projects and some rules for file naming etc.. [2:53] <cliffs> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Process_Description.html [2:54] <cliffs> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html [2:54] <sboyd> Cliff: release - the PMC board will evaluate on releases, version is up to us, though 1.0 can stir controversy before graduation. However, if we feel the codebase reflects 1.0, then we should bring it up with the PMC. [2:54] <sboyd> Cliff: the sponsor PMC for XAP is the incubator PMC, the champion is Cliff, and there are 3 mentors [2:57] <sboyd> Michael: would it make sense to get another sponsor because there are so many under incubator? [2:58] <sboyd> Cliff: that only makes sense if there is a tight technology fit between the top level project and the incubated project [2:59] <sboyd> Coach: should we have a weekly or bi-weekly IRC chat? [2:59] * rdonkin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #xap [2:59] <sboyd> Michael: bi [2:59] <sboyd> Peter: bi [3:00] <rdonkin> looks like i got my timezones wrong :-/ [3:00] <rdonkin> a good start - not [3:00] <sboyd> Coach: OK, tentatively, lets move forward with bi-weekly 100% IRC chats [3:00] <JMargaris> We are going to post notes to the dev mailing list [3:00] <rdonkin> sorry [3:01] <coach> Not a problem. Welcome Rob. [3:01] <coach> Rob: can you call in on phone to speak with people for a few seconds? [3:01] <rdonkin> possibly... [3:01] <rdonkin> skype permitting [3:02] <rdonkin> it'll take me a minute or two to set up my laptop [3:03] <sboyd> Cliff: best thing to do when scheduling meetings is to put meeting times in GMT - this makes it easier for people outside of the US to schedule their time [3:03] <coach> ok. We'have basically finished the call today. The minutes wll be posted to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] [3:05] <rdonkin> having trouble with Skype :-/ [3:05] <rdonkin> doesn't like my password [3:05] <coach> Rob: thanks. Let's talk some other time. [3:05] <rdonkin> might take a while to sort. sorry. [3:06] <coach> bye. [3:06] <rdonkin> bye [3:06] <sboyd> later
