On 30 March 2012 17:22, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Steve Ridout <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > On 30 March 2012 15:06, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'll look at this later in depth later, but I'll ask a basic question:
> >> where, ideally (irrespective of time/resource constraints), would you
> >> like to see this end up?
> >>
> >> E.g. let's say you have some Mendeley user who needs a style for
> >> "Journal X", and it's not returned by a name search.
> >>
> >> Let's also assume they're not the most technically savvy user.
> >>
> >> What's their path to a finished, activated, style they can use?
> >>
> >
> > Basically this:
> >
> > - Name search
> > - Advanced search. e.g. the 'search by example', ideally made more user
> > friendly with autocompletion of fields.
> >
> > If a style was found which is close to the desired one:
> >
> > - Open the Visual Editor so that the style can be tweaked.
>
> OK. Makes sense.
>
> Given the number of styles we have, I expect this to be the vastly
> more common case, and so suggest optimizing for it.
>
>
I agree
> > If search couldn't find anything useful:
> >
> > - Either:
> > -- a: Open a blank style in the Visual Editor. Hopefully starting a style
> > from scratch won't be so intimidating if the user can draw upon a
> library of
> > macros to use as building blocks.
> > -- b: Open a wizard tool, to set up the basic structure of the style, and
> > open this in the Visual Editor.
>
> So these might be a layer on top of the Visual Editor, so feasible
> newbies wouldn't need to see the latter?
>
Could be, but right now I'm not convinced we could make something flexible
enough to create a complete style without exposing the user to the fully
featured editor.
>
> > Whether or not a wizard is preferable may be easier to decide once we get
> > some testing with a more mature version of the editor.
> >
> > - Export/store the edited style for use in your ref manager of choice
> > (ideally hosted online with a permanently resolvable URL so that
> documents
> > can be shared easily). In the short term, I'm open to opinions from
> Zotero,
> > Papers and Mendeley for the best way to import/export edited styles.
>
> I'll just repeat my previous suggestion that the way Zotero does this
> is ideal: one click and it's ready. So no downloading, moving files
> around, etc.
>
>
Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom
style between different machines and users easily? I know that Mendeley
doesn't at the moment.
If we postpone the sharing issue for the time being, at the least we need
to implement:
1. A way to get the styles from the editor into a ref manager. The ref
manager should check the style id and style name doesn't conflict with an
existing style act accordingly.
2. A way to get the edited styles back from a ref manager into the editor.
Bruce
>
> >> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:51 AM, Steve Ridout <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Hello everyone,
> >> >
> >> > Lately I've been working on the CSL editor project, which is being
> >> > managed
> >> > by Jeffery Lancaster and Ian Mulvany.
> >> >
> >> > We've now got a working prototype which gives an idea of the direction
> >> > we're
> >> > going with this, you can try it out here:
> >> >
> >> > steveridout.com/csl/visualEditor
> >> >
> >> > And the code is all on
> >> > github: https://github.com/citation-style-editor/csl-editor
> >> >
> >> > Thanks to recent work on citeproc-js by Frank Bennett, it allows the
> >> > user to
> >> > identify the relevant part of the CSL style by hovering over the
> >> > formatted
> >> > output.
> >> >
> >> > I'm posting here to get some feedback, but please bear in mind it's in
> >> > the
> >> > early stages and we are more interested in discussing the overall
> >> > approach
> >> > rather than little bugs. To avoid too many obvious comments here are
> >> > some
> >> > known problems:
> >> >
> >> > - Only tested with latest Chrome and Firefox
> >> > - UI looks and feels clunky
> >> > - Tree view (jstree) drag and drop behavior is sometimes strange
> >> > - Don't have mapping from every output character to CSL node, and vice
> >> > vera,
> >> > not from every CSL node to output. There's room for improvement here,
> >> > but
> >> > Frank says it's difficult to achieve 100% coverage.
> >> > - Not enough example citations
> >> > - Code editor sometimes wrongly highlights nodes in red
> >> > - Comments are stripped from imported CSL files
> >> > - Should have interactive highlight when hovering over the CSL tree
> too
> >> >
> >> > We have definite plans for the following:
> >> >
> >> > - Allow user to modify the example documents, and provide a larger set
> >> > of
> >> > built in examples.
> >> >
> >> > - Only allow CSL schema validating styles. e.g. instead of text boxes
> >> > for
> >> > attribute names, use combo boxes populated with data from the csl.rng
> >> > file.
> >> > If anyone has advice on parsing the .rng with javascript please let me
> >> > know.
> >> >
> >> > Here are possible ideas for future work:
> >> >
> >> > - Simplify/clean up tree view heirachy. At the moment it exactly maps
> >> > the
> >> > CSL XML. I think there's scope for simplifying this view whilst
> >> > internally
> >> > keeping the CSL structure. If we did this, we should allow switching
> >> > back
> >> > and fore between the actual CSL structure.
> >> > e.g. (just thinking)
> >> > - put macros inside a 'macros' node to avoid cluttering the
> interface.
> >> > - try removing the leaf nodes from 'info' and 'author' and use more
> >> > friendly GUI controls in the property panel instead.
> >> > - place 'symlinks' within <text macro=""> nodes to the relevant
> macro
> >> >
> >> > - Allow construction of styles using a database of all macros
> extracted
> >> > from
> >> > the repository as building blocks.
> >> >
> >> > - Allow user to specify desired textual output of the example
> documents,
> >> > to
> >> > be used as unit tests for that style. This could be pre populated for
> >> > users
> >> > arriving from 'search by example'. The editor would show an error and
> >> > the
> >> > relevant diff if the style fails to match.
> >> >
> >> > - Import and export of styles. We want an easy way to import and
> export
> >> > styles to and from ref managers. I think providing online storage and
> >> > resolvable URLs for all edited styles would be ideal, but is probably
> >> > beyond
> >> > the scope of this project.
> >> >
> >> > Look forward to hearing your comments!
> >> >
> >> > Steve
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
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> >>
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