On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Frank Bennett <[email protected]> wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> wrote: >> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Steve Ridout <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> It's at a stage where I'd encourage brave technically minded users to do >>> real work with it, with the caveat that it's still an early alpha version, >>> no guarantees, back up your style regularly, etc... >>> Please let me know if you have any suggestions or bug reports. >> >> I'm not really remembering, or don't know, how the current design >> relates to the ultimate goal; what real, average, users will see in >> the end. But I'll just say it: >> >> I don't think the current UI is any easier to use than using a good >> XML editor (though the live previewing is definitely awesome). > > The cross-reference between visual form and style code is invaluable. > This will save anyone charged with maintaining production styles of > any degree of complexity a huge amount of time.
Fair enough. But it won't work if the editor itself is too complex. >> It's very well done work, but it still represents quite directly a >> complex and abstract model that will be hard for people (even me) to >> grok. >> >> Of course, if this is just to the first stage towards something >> simpler, then nothing to worry about. >> >> For example, the "search by example" tab is evolving nicely. >> >> First, a little thing: I think we want a link like "create new style >> based on" link. >> >> Second, I'll just remind of the most overwhelmingly common use case: >> >> User searches by example, and finds something very, very close to what >> they need, but not quite there. Let's say everything is correct, >> except that issue numbers need the parentheses removed. >> >> So I'm trying to do this right now: edit a style (APA) that has issue >> numbers with parenthesis affixes. It should take me two seconds to do. >> But I can't find where the parentheses are. > > Really? > > Citation 1 -> select article-journal. > Click on issue number in cite sample. > Delete parenthesis. > > Done. Yes, *really*. That didn't even occur to me. Why should it? If I click a journal article on the output example, why do I have to find some hidden other place to select, well, a journal article? When the time is right, ideally we'd do usability testing to assess. Is there any possibility that Mendeley and/or CNMH could hire or corral some students to do this? Sit them in front of a monitor and ask them to do one task: the edit an existing one I laid out here. Record their interactions with the UI, and time how long it takes them. >> If I could edit punctuation directly in the output example, that would >> solve that problem. >> >> But then consider changes that don't involve punctuation. > > The UI provides access to every attribute of the node, and illustrates > the effect as changes are made. > > Or is your point that style examples should be editable directly, > without revealing the nodes at all? If so, I think that would be bad > design; surely users need to be encouraged to understand and work > through the abstract model. It's the most concise language we have > available for describing citation requirements with any degree of > precision. I guess I go back to the argument I've been making for the past few years: Users won't be bothered with these details. They just want the stuff to work, which in this case means to match the output they expect. Consider the use case again: a not-terribly-technically savvy, and very busy, junior faculty member who has to submit her article manuscript to Journal X. There's no such style, and she's really stressed. She just needs the damned thing to work, ASAP. She won't spent three hours (if she's lucky) learning the CSL model, and how to use it in a very complicated UI. I don't think a direct representation of the model is consistent with making this user happy, which should be our goal. I think allowing users to select different macros--or even better to have the software do it for them as la Simon's proof-of-concept--is. To be clear, these aren't mutually-exclusive. The current UI could simply be an "advanced" editor to create new macros, and edit existing ones. Bruce ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ _______________________________________________ xbiblio-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
