On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 8:16 PM, Frank Bennett <[email protected]> wrote: >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> wrote: >>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Rintze Zelle <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have a hard time seeing any advantages of such an approach, but please >>>> prove me wrong. >>>> >>>> When we introduce new terms, style authors should be confident that those >>>> terms have translations in the locale files, and, AFAIK, none of the CSL >>>> apps support automatic style updating, let alone locale updating. >>> >>> Well, that's their problem; how hard can it be? >>> >>> Mendeley guys? Zotero guys? Anyone else? >> >> Bruce: I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting. Is the idea that >> there would be one master styles repo, with the most recent release >> version of each style, to be run with processors that groke the most >> recent schema and locale releases? Or are you suggesting that style >> version branches should only be cast at larger (schema) version >> increments? > > The latter.
Some of the changes in processor logic this time around are pretty significant, and tightly tied to specific changes in the locale. What determines the size of the increment in this case? Is the issue the number assigned to the release, or the degree of change in CSL? > >> With respect to locale files, is the idea that a given schema version >> should not have a declared dependency relation to a given locale >> release? I don't see how you could avoid that and still keep things >> working, but I may be missing your point. > > I'm not sure of the precise details yet, except to say that we > decouple locales from core schema. It could be that locates get a > separate versioning scheme (maybe by date?). So long as we have specific guidance on version dependencies for the release, the numbering scheme could be anything, I guess. It would be easier to follow if the branch numbers under schema, locales and styles were aligned, though. > > Bruce > >> Frank >> >>> >>>> Just dismissing that as being the problems of the implementations doesn't >>>> seem >>>> like a workable short-term solution. >>> >>> I guess I'll go back to my earlier question in reply: >>> >>> How does having style branches (as well as updated schema and >>> specification releases) for every trivial (x.x.x) change help anyone? >>> >>> What work will implementers (or even worse, users) have to do just to >>> accommodate this approach, and how would that work compare to what I'm >>> suggesting here (my guess is my suggestion is easier to implement)? >>> >>> I think we're overloading the notion of a CSL version change to cover >>> too many issues. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>>> Uncoupling the addition of new terms from schema updates also doesn't solve >>>> the current case where we add new terms for ordinals, since they require >>>> new >>>> logic in the CSL processor. >>>> >>>> Rintze >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Random thought: >>>>> >>>>> a) we simply don't consider the terms schema part of the same >>>>> versioning scheme, b) define how implementations should deal with >>>>> unknown terms, and c) leave it up to those implementations to keep >>>>> their locales files up to date (it's really not our job to worry about >>>>> that). >>>>> >>>>> Isn't that a viable, simple, approach? >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Rintze Zelle <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > How would that work, exactly? >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I think your point probably suggests a solution: decouple style >>>>> >> versioning >>>>> >> from the evolution of a) the basic language, and b) things like >>>>> >> locales? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On Aug 12, 2012 12:31 PM, "Rintze Zelle" <[email protected]> >>>>> >> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> I welcome any suggestions to do it better. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Rintze >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> >>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Never replied to this. I understand this, but don't think it's a good >>>>> >>>> situation to be in. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> On Jul 24, 2012 10:45 PM, "Rintze Zelle" <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, just to clarify, I thought we had previously agreed on plans >>>>> >>>>>> for >>>>> >>>>>> versioning, which effectively meant that we'd only consider style >>>>> >>>>>> branches >>>>> >>>>>> for major point releases. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> CSL 1.0.1 will be backward compatible, but won't be forward >>>>> >>>>> compatible. >>>>> >>>>> I.e., any valid CSL 1.0 style should work correctly with a CSL 1.0.1 >>>>> >>>>> processor, but a CSL 1.0.1 style won't necessarily render correctly >>>>> >>>>> in a CSL >>>>> >>>>> 1.0 processor. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take for instance the new "available at" term. CSL 1.0 clients that >>>>> >>>>> have shipped with CSL 1.0 locales won't have that term in their >>>>> >>>>> locale >>>>> >>>>> files, and any CSL 1.0.1 style that calls this term will at best >>>>> >>>>> render an >>>>> >>>>> empty string (unless that style happens to define the term with >>>>> >>>>> cs:locale). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Another example is the Zotero Style Repository. If we introduce >>>>> >>>>> styles >>>>> >>>>> with CSL 1.0.1 features in the "master" branch, these styles will >>>>> >>>>> appear to >>>>> >>>>> be invalid in the Zotero Style Repository. Things would be much more >>>>> >>>>> robust >>>>> >>>>> if Zotero could just pull their 1.0 styles from a "1.0" branch, and >>>>> >>>>> move >>>>> >>>>> branches once they're ready for "1.0.1". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And, as you said above, branch are light-weight. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Rintze >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>>>> >>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>>>> >>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. >>>>> >>>>> Discussions >>>>> >>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in >>>>> >>>>> malware >>>>> >>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>>>> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>>>> >>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>>>> >>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. >>>>> >>>> Discussions >>>>> >>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in >>>>> >>>> malware >>>>> >>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>>>> >>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>>>> >>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>>>> >>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. >>>>> >>> Discussions >>>>> >>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in >>>>> >>> malware >>>>> >>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>>>> >>> [email protected] >>>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >> Live Security Virtual Conference >>>>> >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>>>> >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. >>>>> >> Discussions >>>>> >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in >>>>> >> malware >>>>> >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>>>> >> [email protected] >>>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> > Live Security Virtual Conference >>>>> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>>>> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. >>>>> > Discussions >>>>> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in >>>>> > malware >>>>> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > xbiblio-devel mailing list >>>>> > [email protected] >>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Live Security Virtual Conference >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >> _______________________________________________ >> xbiblio-devel mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > xbiblio-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ _______________________________________________ xbiblio-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
