OK, fair enough. I just wanted to make sure that my csl processor
(citeproc-php) was doing what it was supposed to. Now I can point the
finger at the CSL author :-)
Cheers,
Ron.
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Sebastian Karcher <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
> But I guess my question is that if a cs:group is going to act like a
>> conditional, shouldn't ALL the variables/macros be required to evaluate to
>> TRUE, not just one? Allowing output with ANY variable/macro evaluating to
>> TRUE can lead to incorrect output as we see here. Or, perhaps there could
>> be a "match" attribute attached to the group to control this behavior.
>>
>
> no, most definitely not! The most important purpose of groups is that they
> deal correctly with missing values. A typical case is e.g. "edition," which
> only exists for some book. We'd often do something like:
> <group delimiter=", " suffix=".">
> <text variable="title">
> <text macro="edition"/>
> </group>
>
> Which produces:
> Book Title. (when there is no edition)
> and
> Book Title, 2nd edition. (when there is no edition)
> That's what groups are for - it would obviously be bad if this entire
> group disappeared where there is no edition.
> The reason you're getting wrong output in your example is that you're
> using groups wrong. See my example code in the prior e-mail for a better
> way of doing this.
>
> I see no reason for changing the current behavior, which works great. It's
> always going to be possible to create faulty output if you write syntax
> that doesn't take into account the specs properly.
>
> Sebastian
>
>
>>
>> In this case I don't want any output, regardless of the fact that I do
>> have a "page" variable.
>>
>> Ron.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Sebastian Karcher <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> also, look at the spec again:
>>> a group is suppressed if:
>>> a) at least one rendering element in cs:group calls a variable (either
>>> directly or via a macro), and b) all variables that are called are empty.
>>> This accommodates descriptive cs:text elements.
>>>
>>> b) is not the case in your example, as page is a variable and it's not
>>> empty. So this is exactly what the specs are saying.
>>>
>>> Bruce is right, of course, that the data is faulty in your example, but
>>> one of the nice thing about groups is that they help you deal with
>>> incomplete data - in this case probably something like (also cleaning up
>>> some of the remaining code):
>>> <group delimiter=": " suffix=".">
>>> <text term="in" text-case="capitalize-first"/>
>>> <text macro="container-contributors"/>
>>> <text macro="container-title"/>
>>> </group>
>>> <group>
>>> <label variable="page" form="short" prefix=" – "/>
>>>
>>> <text variable="page" suffix=","/>
>>> </group>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Without getting too deep, step back a bit and note that the data in
>>>> this case is flawed.
>>>>
>>>> The purpose of that group is to describe the characteristics of a
>>>> container; likely a book. If the data record doesn't have a title or
>>>> contributor (editor), then you can't get a correct formatted
>>>> reference.
>>>>
>>>> So in short, a bug in the data.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Ron Jerome <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> > Hi Folks,
>>>> >
>>>> > I've run into an issue with cs:group elements and seek some
>>>> clarification on
>>>> > the spec.
>>>> >
>>>> > I have a group which contains a number of elements rendered either
>>>> directly
>>>> > from variables for indirectly from macros.
>>>> >
>>>> > My interpretation of the spec is that ALL of the variables/macros
>>>> have to be
>>>> > empty before the group is suppressed, but in the case of a group with
>>>> > multiple variables/macros, this can produce some strange output.
>>>> >
>>>> > Here is my specific case...
>>>> >
>>>> > <group delimiter="">
>>>> > <text term="in" suffix=": " text-case="capitalize-first"/>
>>>> > <text macro="container-contributors" prefix=" " suffix=":
>>>> "/>
>>>> > <text macro="container-title" suffix="."/>
>>>> > <label variable="page" form="short" text-case="lowercase"
>>>> > suffix=". " prefix=" – "/>
>>>> > <text variable="page" suffix=","/>
>>>> > </group>
>>>> >
>>>> > In this case, both "container-contributors" and "container-title"
>>>> macros
>>>> > evaluate empty but the "page" variable is there, so it creates strange
>>>> > output like this...
>>>> >
>>>> > "In: – pp. 329–368"
>>>> >
>>>> > Seems to me in this case, the whole thing should be suppressed.
>>>> >
>>>> > Am I misinterpreting the spec?
>>>> >
>>>> > Ron.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial
>>>> > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
>>>> > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add
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>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > xbiblio-devel mailing list
>>>> > [email protected]
>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sebastian Karcher
>>> Ph.D. Candidate
>>> Department of Political Science
>>> Northwestern University
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial
>>> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
>>> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
>> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Karcher
> Ph.D. Candidate
> Department of Political Science
> Northwestern University
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Ron Jerome <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Bruce & Sebastian
>>
>> You are correct on both counts, it is a book descriptor, and it is flawed
>> data.
>>
>> But I guess my question is that if a cs:group is going to act like a
>> conditional, shouldn't ALL the variables/macros be required to evaluate to
>> TRUE, not just one? Allowing output with ANY variable/macro evaluating to
>> TRUE can lead to incorrect output as we see here. Or, perhaps there could
>> be a "match" attribute attached to the group to control this behavior.
>>
>> In this case I don't want any output, regardless of the fact that I do
>> have a "page" variable.
>>
>> Ron.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Sebastian Karcher <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> also, look at the spec again:
>>> a group is suppressed if:
>>> a) at least one rendering element in cs:group calls a variable (either
>>> directly or via a macro), and b) all variables that are called are empty.
>>> This accommodates descriptive cs:text elements.
>>>
>>> b) is not the case in your example, as page is a variable and it's not
>>> empty. So this is exactly what the specs are saying.
>>>
>>> Bruce is right, of course, that the data is faulty in your example, but
>>> one of the nice thing about groups is that they help you deal with
>>> incomplete data - in this case probably something like (also cleaning up
>>> some of the remaining code):
>>> <group delimiter=": " suffix=".">
>>> <text term="in" text-case="capitalize-first"/>
>>> <text macro="container-contributors"/>
>>> <text macro="container-title"/>
>>> </group>
>>> <group>
>>> <label variable="page" form="short" prefix=" – "/>
>>>
>>> <text variable="page" suffix=","/>
>>> </group>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Without getting too deep, step back a bit and note that the data in
>>>> this case is flawed.
>>>>
>>>> The purpose of that group is to describe the characteristics of a
>>>> container; likely a book. If the data record doesn't have a title or
>>>> contributor (editor), then you can't get a correct formatted
>>>> reference.
>>>>
>>>> So in short, a bug in the data.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Ron Jerome <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> > Hi Folks,
>>>> >
>>>> > I've run into an issue with cs:group elements and seek some
>>>> clarification on
>>>> > the spec.
>>>> >
>>>> > I have a group which contains a number of elements rendered either
>>>> directly
>>>> > from variables for indirectly from macros.
>>>> >
>>>> > My interpretation of the spec is that ALL of the variables/macros
>>>> have to be
>>>> > empty before the group is suppressed, but in the case of a group with
>>>> > multiple variables/macros, this can produce some strange output.
>>>> >
>>>> > Here is my specific case...
>>>> >
>>>> > <group delimiter="">
>>>> > <text term="in" suffix=": " text-case="capitalize-first"/>
>>>> > <text macro="container-contributors" prefix=" " suffix=":
>>>> "/>
>>>> > <text macro="container-title" suffix="."/>
>>>> > <label variable="page" form="short" text-case="lowercase"
>>>> > suffix=". " prefix=" – "/>
>>>> > <text variable="page" suffix=","/>
>>>> > </group>
>>>> >
>>>> > In this case, both "container-contributors" and "container-title"
>>>> macros
>>>> > evaluate empty but the "page" variable is there, so it creates strange
>>>> > output like this...
>>>> >
>>>> > "In: – pp. 329–368"
>>>> >
>>>> > Seems to me in this case, the whole thing should be suppressed.
>>>> >
>>>> > Am I misinterpreting the spec?
>>>> >
>>>> > Ron.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial
>>>> > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
>>>> > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add
>>>> services
>>>> > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers
>>>> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > xbiblio-devel mailing list
>>>> > [email protected]
>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
>>>> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services
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>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> xbiblio-devel mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sebastian Karcher
>>> Ph.D. Candidate
>>> Department of Political Science
>>> Northwestern University
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial
>>> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
>>> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services
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>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xbiblio-devel mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Karcher
> Ph.D. Candidate
> Department of Political Science
> Northwestern University
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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