Great; thanks. I still think the notion of a preposition in their rules may not be entirely clear. But what seemed to be the emerging consensus on how to deal with this should allow us to get what we need. If it were me, I'd only include the obvious core prepositions, and examples they include in CMoS. E.g. I would not include every word or group of words that's listed in WikiPedia.
I would also leave room for the possibility there are other rules on this in the future. Certainly that's been the case with things like shortening number ranges. BTW, the "stop words" phrase is just something I borrowed from programming. It may or may not be the best phrase here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_words On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Sebastian Karcher <[email protected]> wrote: > yes, I do indeed think so. Here are the full rules from CMoS, followed by > some examples. > Notice the explicit "regardless of length" in rule three and the lower > casing of "according to" in the 4th example. > As I mention in my original mail, we won't be able to get everything right > all the time (see example 5), but that's already the case now. > > > The conventions of headline style are governed mainly by emphasis and > grammar. The following rules, though occasionally arbitrary, are intended > primarily to facilitate the consistent styling of titles mentioned or cited > in text and notes: > > 1. Capitalize the first and last words in titles and subtitles (but see > rule 7), and capitalize all other major words (nouns, pronouns, verbs, > adjectives, adverbs, and some conjunctions—but see rule 4). > > 2. Lowercase the articles the, a, and an. > > 3. Lowercase prepositions, regardless of length, except when they are > used adverbially or adjectivally (up in Look Up, down in Turn Down, on in > The On Button, to in Come To, etc.) or when they compose part of a Latin > expression used adjectivally or adverbially (De Facto, In Vitro, etc.). > > 4. Lowercase the conjunctions and, but, for, or, and nor. > > 5. Lowercase to not only as a preposition (rule 3) but also as part of > an infinitive (to Run, to Hide, etc.), and lowercase as in any grammatical > function. > > 6. Lowercase the part of a proper name that would be lowercased in text, > such as de or von. > > 7. Lowercase the second part of a species name, such as fulvescens in > Acipenser fulvescens, even if it is the last word in a title or subtitle. > > > > Mnemonics That Work Are Better Than Rules That Do Not > Singing While You Work > A Little Learning Is a Dangerous Thing (2) > Four Theories concerning the Gospel according to Matthew (2, 3) > Taking Down Names, Spelling Them Out, and Typing Them Up (3, 4) > Tired but Happy (4) > The Editor as Anonymous Assistant (5) > From Homo erectus to Homo sapiens: A Brief History (3, 7) > Defenders of da Vinci Fail the Test: The Name Is Leonardo (2, 3, 6) > Sitting on the Floor in an Empty Room (2, 3), but Turn On, Tune In, and > Enjoy (3, 4) > Ten Hectares per Capita, but Landownership and Per Capita Income (3) > Progress in In Vitro Fertilization (3) > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On #1, did you look at the list of prepositions on wikipedia I link >> to? If yes, do you really think the CMoS editors expect ALL of those >> words to not be capitalized? >> >> I guess my point is "preposition" appears to not be so straightforward >> thing, so we should be careful, and that CMoS editors make mistakes >> too. >> >> Bruce >> >> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Sebastian Karcher >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > 1. The CMoS doesn't provide a _de_scription of title case, it provides a >> > _pre_scription. If we want correct title case according to CMoS we'll >> > need >> > to follow it. If someone wants to put in the work to find out if other >> > style >> > manuals define other capitalization rules I'd be happy to discuss those, >> > but >> > I've never seen them clearly defined anywhere but in the CMoS (which we >> > also >> > follow otherwise, e.g. by always capitalizing the last word). >> > >> > 2. CMoS does not give a comprehensive list of words. So while on the >> > technical side, prepositions are indeed just a subset of the stop words, >> > I >> > don't think we should prescribe what processors regard as preposition in >> > the >> > specs - not least because that would mean changing the specs every time >> > we >> > notice a preposition we didn't include. I like Rintze's idea of just >> > supplying them in a separate file. >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> I will also add that, looking at this list of english prepositions (is >> >> this correct?), I'm not sure I accept the CMoS description. >> >> >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_prepositions >> >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Rintze Zelle <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> > Does CMoS give a comprehensive list of words? If not, we could change >> >> > the language in the spec to something more general (e.g. a mention >> >> > that we follow CMoS on this topic), and provide a JSON file with all >> >> > desired stop-words in either the "schema" or "documentation" repo. >> >> > That would be much easier to keep up-to-date. >> >> > >> >> > Rintze >> >> > >> >> > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> Aren't "stop words' just a superset of prepositions? >> >> >> >> >> >> Seems better to keep the current language, and specify what we mean >> >> >> by >> >> >> the >> >> >> former. >> >> >> >> >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:07 AM, Sebastian Karcher >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Hi everyone, >> >> >>> currently, CSL specs define title casing (text-case="title") as >> >> >>> uppercasing the first letter of every word that isn't on a list of >> >> >>> "stop >> >> >>> words". >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> http://citationstyles.org/downloads/specification.html#title-case-conversion >> >> >>> According to the Chicago Manual of Style - which has to the best of >> >> >>> my >> >> >>> knowledge the most thorough rules for title casing, _all_ >> >> >>> propositions >> >> >>> should be lowercased >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I would like to propose (and Frank & Rintze agree) to bring the >> >> >>> specs >> >> >>> in >> >> >>> line with CMoS on this, i.e. rephrase the rule as "preopositions as >> >> >>> well as >> >> >>> the following stop words..." >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Current citeproc-js behavior is a hybrid, with some additional >> >> >>> prepositions, not listed in the specs, already included, but others >> >> >>> missing. >> >> >>> On the technical side, while we may miss some prepositions and some >> >> >>> words >> >> >>> may be ambiguous, I don't think it'd be hard to find & add a list >> >> >>> of >> >> >>> prepositions to title-casing. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Are there any concerns or objections? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Sebastian >> >> >>> original discussion on the Zotero forums: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/30484/uncapitalizing-prepositions/#Item_21 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > Get your SQL database under version control now! >> >> > Version control is standard for application code, but databases >> >> > havent >> >> > caught up. So what steps can you take to put your SQL databases under >> >> > version control? Why should you start doing it? Read more to find >> >> > out. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=49501711&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > xbiblio-devel mailing list >> >> > [email protected] >> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Get your SQL database under version control now! >> >> Version control is standard for application code, but databases havent >> >> caught up. So what steps can you take to put your SQL databases under >> >> version control? Why should you start doing it? Read more to find out. >> >> >> >> >> >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=49501711&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> xbiblio-devel mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Sebastian Karcher >> > Ph.D. Candidate >> > Department of Political Science >> > Northwestern University >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > Get your SQL database under version control now! >> > Version control is standard for application code, but databases havent >> > caught up. So what steps can you take to put your SQL databases under >> > version control? Why should you start doing it? Read more to find out. >> > >> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=49501711&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> > _______________________________________________ >> > xbiblio-devel mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Get your SQL database under version control now! >> Version control is standard for application code, but databases havent >> caught up. So what steps can you take to put your SQL databases under >> version control? Why should you start doing it? Read more to find out. >> >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=49501711&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> xbiblio-devel mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > > > > > -- > Sebastian Karcher > Ph.D. Candidate > Department of Political Science > Northwestern University > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get your SQL database under version control now! > Version control is standard for application code, but databases havent > caught up. So what steps can you take to put your SQL databases under > version control? Why should you start doing it? Read more to find out. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=49501711&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > xbiblio-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your SQL database under version control now! Version control is standard for application code, but databases havent caught up. So what steps can you take to put your SQL databases under version control? Why should you start doing it? Read more to find out. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=49501711&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ xbiblio-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
