sorry if "Chaos" sounded rough--it was just short-hand for a concern that it might be confusing. I think I understand the issue now and that makes sense. I'd much rather have that in a separate attribute, not just because of the naming, but also because I think systematically the givennname-disambiguation-rule should only apply when givenname disambiguation is turned on, which may or may not be the case in the references you're dealing with.
Sebastian On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 6:16 AM, Frank Bennett <biercena...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Sebastian Karcher > <karc...@u.northwestern.edu> wrote: >> >> sorry, I feel like I'm missing things here. >> Why would the appearance of first-reference-note-number be contingent >> on a disambiguation preference unless it is in an if loop testing for >> disambiguation? >> Also, not all styles will have givenname disambiguation at all, so >> it's very much possible to have a style _without_ a givenname >> disambiguation rule. Generally I'm not happy using that rule for >> anything but givennames—that's just going to create chaos. > > > "Chaos" is a little strong, surely; but I understand your reservation, and > that's why I explained the rationale for the choice: it's certainly not > carved in stone or anything. > > Since givenname-disambiguation-rule="by-cite" is the default behaviour, the > default behaviour here would be to include first-reference note numbers when > disambiguating. That would be toggled off when givenname-disambiguation-rule > is set to some other value. > > Alternatively, the setting could easily be given its own attribute. All that > would be needed is to decide what it should be called, and what its default > value would be. A total of nine independent repository styles use > first-reference-note-number and perform disambiguation of some sort, so the > set is pretty limited -- mostly legal styles. From a quick look at available > documentation, I'd say that guides are generally unclear on what exactly is > meant by "ambiguity", but flexibility is a good thing, so I'll revise and > suggest a solo attribute "disambiguate-on-first-reference-note-number", with > a default value of "false". > > >> >> I'm probably missing something, but I'm going to guess that I've spend >> more time on this than most other, so if I don't get it, probably a >> lot of others won't, either. So maybe you could step back a bit and >> try to explain again why the the disambiguation rule and the >> first-note number are involved here? > > > The test case shows what the code needs to accomplish. > > As CSL revisions are not an issue at the moment, I'm just posting this so > that the details will be on file when the design cycle rolls around again. > There isn't any pressure to make decisions about it in the short term. > > Frank > > > >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Frank Bennett <biercena...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > A note on some fresh developments in citeproc-js land that affect the >> > CSL >> > test suite. >> > >> > In response to feedback on the MLZ Bluebook style, I put in some work in >> > citeproc-js to get backreference glosses working. The form implemented >> > for >> > Bluebook support looks like this: >> > >> > Smith, His Very Long Book Title (2000) [hereinafter Smith, His Book] >> > >> > The tricky bits are that (a) the gloss should be applied only if there >> > are >> > subsequent back-references; and (b) the note number should be included >> > for >> > disambiguation purposes. A test that captures the behaviour is here: >> > >> > >> > https://bitbucket.org/bdarcus/citeproc-test/src/737afd7171005f9d53cf221f8a71f21007d10386/processor-tests/humans/disambiguate_BasedOnSubsequentFormWithBackref2.txt >> > >> > A question for the list is whether first-reference-note-number should >> > always >> > be included for disambiguation purposes, or whether it should be >> > discretionary. In the current implementation, it is included only if >> > givenname-disambiguation-rule="by-cite" (the default). When another rule >> > is >> > used, the cite to Roe in the test fixture linked above would have the >> > gloss, >> > and the backreference would show the title. >> > >> > While the name of givenname-disambiguation-rule suggests that it affects >> > only given names, the general effect of the "by-cite" rule is to make >> > citations as compact as possible; and dropping the gloss where is is not >> > strictly necessary has that effect. >> > >> > While testing the implementation, I found it necessary, in styles that >> > use >> > disambiguate="true", to force a rerun of disambiguation for first >> > references >> > that are moved in the document, together with all back-references that >> > point >> > to it, to assure that the document reflects the actual disambiguation >> > state >> > of each reference in the set. This change in behaviour affected three >> > tests >> > in the test suite: >> > >> > >> > >> > https://bitbucket.org/bdarcus/citeproc-test/commits/737afd7171005f9d53cf221f8a71f21007d10386 >> > >> > Finally, to control the appearance of the gloss on first references, I >> > had >> > to introduce a test condition (which I've added to the CSL-m schema) >> > that >> > returns true only if there are subsequent references to the item: >> > >> > >> > >> > https://github.com/fbennett/schema/commit/6881c98ae752e106b9c62673c5aa42d743fc0c7b >> > >> > A condition that tests for subsequent back-references is needed to >> > implement >> > back-reference glosses, regardless of whether note numbers are included >> > for >> > disambiguation purposes. >> > >> > Frank >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk >> > Solutions >> > Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems >> > Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data. >> > Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems >> > _______________________________________________ >> > xbiblio-devel mailing list >> > xbiblio-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Sebastian Karcher >> Ph.D. Candidate >> Department of Political Science >> Northwestern University >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions >> Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems >> Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data. >> Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems >> _______________________________________________ >> xbiblio-devel mailing list >> xbiblio-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions > Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems > Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data. > Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration > http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems > _______________________________________________ > xbiblio-devel mailing list > xbiblio-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > -- Sebastian Karcher Ph.D. Candidate Department of Political Science Northwestern University ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data. Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems _______________________________________________ xbiblio-devel mailing list xbiblio-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
