What is the best 7" android device available that includes the ability to
connect to the 302? or to the SN10? Maybe there is none available yet?
I prefer not to purchase a Dell product.
Stephen
> From: xcsoar-user-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Xcsoar-user Digest, Vol 61, Issue 14
> To: xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 22:42:02 +0000
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Evaluating sunlight readability (Ronald Niederhagen)
> 2. Re: Evaluating sunlight readability (David Lawley)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 19:51:34 +0200
> From: Ronald Niederhagen <ronald_niederha...@freenet.de>
> Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] Evaluating sunlight readability
> To: xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> Message-ID: <4dff88a6.6040...@freenet.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Ian,
>
> this is definitely a great idea. This is an objective metric which is
> very relevant for this application.
>
> I'm using a hx4700 and agree that readability is weak unless in full
> sunlight. So I'm looking to buy a new device and readability is
> definitely the most important metric.
>
> Just a couple of suggestions if you make the effort and post the results
> on a Wiki page:
>
> 1. describe the model as complete as possible. Some devices come with
> different display types. Also say if it has the bare display or an anti
> glare foil on it.
>
> 2. I find the definition of the Test Positions hard to remember. I
> suggest you use the angel between sunlight and light coming from the
> display:
> Position A is 180?
> Position B is 135?
> Position C is 90?
> Position D is 45?
> Position E is 0?
>
> Ronald
>
> Am 20.06.2011 14:37, schrieb Ian:
> > Hi All
> >
> > I bought an hx4700 a while back because it was reportedly one of the
> > best of its generation with regards to sunlight readability. But quit
> > frankly once I had it installed and wired I discovered its readability
> > during flight is still not adequate. I previously flew with a low cost
> > GPS and then a Palm V mounted in the cockpit which also had their
> > display limitations so I have experienced this before. The information
> > provided by XCsoar is so useful, I would never fly without the hx4700.
> > It is just sad that sometimes when I scan the panel I miss some of the
> > details on the PDA.
> >
> > Now I am considering upgrading to the Dell Streak, and actively looking
> > for alternatives, because the Dell is reported to have significantly
> > better sunlight readability than the hx4700. But when I read the
> > reports, it is obvious that sunlight readability is very subjective.
> > What looks good in the shop and during a casual walk outside does not
> > always cut it when you mount the device is in a glider cockpit and go
> > flying.
> >
> > So I figure we should design a means of evaluating sunlight readability
> > so we can compare our experiences in a semi-scientific manner. I took my
> > hx4700 out into the sun yesterday and danced around with it a while and
> > came up with the following:
> >
> >
> > PROCEDURE FOR EVALUATING SUNLIGHT READABILITY OF A PDA DEVICE FOR
> > GLIDING PURPOSES:
> >
> > 1) Requirements:
> >
> > - PDA, PNA, Tablet Computer, smart cell phone or other device to test,
> > with enough battery charge.
> >
> > - XCSoar software, loaded with terrain maps and turn points, or
> > alternate mapping software, like Google maps.
> >
> > - An outdoor location with direct, bright sunlight.
> >
> > - Gliding sunglasses and optionally a gliding hat or peaked cap.
> >
> >
> > 2) Preparation:
> >
> > - Start up a XCsoar on the device, demo mode may prove useful if it is
> > not located in an area covered by your maps and connected to a GPS.
> > (Otherwise use alternate mapping software like Google Maps). Make sure
> > you have some coloured features, like terrain markings, as well as some
> > text details, like turn point or street labels, clearly visible on the
> > screen.
> >
> > - Ensure that the PDA backlight is on full brightness and will maintain
> > that setting for several minutes during the evaluation.
> >
> > - Put on your sunglasses and optionally your hat.
> >
> >
> > 3) Test Positions:
> >
> > Take the device out into the sun and assess it in the following 5
> > positions. In each position the device should be held at arms length,
> > with the screen pointing directly back at your eyes.
> >
> > Position A: Sun shining over your shoulder such that the shadow of your
> > head falls just to one side of the device and the device is in full
> > sunlight. If it has a reflective screen, the reflection of the sun
> > should shine on your neck or chin, just below your eyes.
> >
> > Position E: Hold the device up in front of the sun so the shadow of the
> > device blocks the sun from shining directly into your eyes. Be careful
> > not to look directly into the sun. Wearing a gliding hat or peaked cap
> > allows you to shade your eyes from the sun with the brim of your hat
> > while you are positioning the device.
> >
> > Position C: Rotate your arms in an ark to a point midway between point 1
> > and point 5. Hold the device at right angles to the sun so that it
> > shines across the screen and small adjustments would put in in either
> > shade or sunlight.
> >
> > Position B: Rotate your arms in the ark to a point midway between
> > Position A and Position C. There should be direct sunlight falling on
> > the screen.
> >
> > Position D: Rotate your arms in the ark to a point midway between
> > Position C and Position E. The screen should be in shadow.
> >
> > Note I have described the positions in an order which easiest to
> > understand. Once you know what you are doing it is very easy to go
> > through them in alphabetic (ie positional) order.
> >
> >
> > 4) Test Procedure:
> >
> > Line up the device in the required position and then tilt it slightly to
> > minimize the effects of reflections etc. Move it up to 15 degrees left
> > or right and/or up or down while maintaining the relative positions of
> > the sun, your eyes and the device until you have the best visibility.
> >
> > Hold the position and look away at some details on the horizon for
> > several seconds. Then glance back at the device for 2 seconds. Read some
> > black text details, like turn point labels (or street names) on the map,
> > and then look at colour features like terrain shading. Assign a score
> > from 5 down to 1 for the visibility of the details. The score should be
> > similar to the 5 to 1 score one uses to report on a radio test
> > transmission, ie:
> >
> > 5: Clearly visible
> > 4: Some distortion, but still clearly visible.
> > 3: Significant distortion, but still visible.
> > 2. Lots of distortion, barely visible.
> > 1. Total distortion, information not discernible.
> >
> > Separate scores should be assigned for black text and colour features.
> >
> > Finally make a note how high the sun is above the horizon. This will
> > give others an indication of how bright the conditions were during your
> > assessment.
> >
> >
> > To test the above I tried it with the following devices:
> >
> > - My HP Compaq hx4700.
> >
> > - A college's htc Desire smart phone. (Google shows that this phone came
> > out with two models of screen, AMOLED and SLCD. There is no definitive
> > way to determine which is installed. The original packing does not state
> > AMOLED, which suggests it is SLCD but the test results indicate otherwise).
> >
> > - My well used Nokia 6110 Navigator cell phone.
> >
> > - My Casio black and white digital watch. (Top of the line for a plastic
> > digital watch, but still not an exotic watch).
> >
> >
> > I logged these results:
> >
> > Colour visibility
> > Position A B C D E
> > hx4700 5 4 2 2 1
> > htc Desire 1 4 3 3 2
> > Nokia 6110 nav 1 3 2 2 2
> >
> > Black/white visibility
> > Position A B C D E
> > hx4700 5 4 2 2 1
> > htc Desire 1 4 3 3 2
> > Nokia 6110 nav 4 3 2 2 2
> > Casio digital watch 5 5 5 5 5
> >
> >
> > This was in sunny but winter weather in Cape Town with the sun about 35
> > to 40 deg above the horizon.
> >
> > The most interesting comparison is Position A, with the sun shining
> > directly onto the screen. My hx4700 reads 5, but the htc is a 1. My
> > Nokia goes black and white.
> >
> > In position B both the hx4700 and the htc are clearly visible.
> >
> > The "shade" positions, C, D and E test the strength of the back
> > lighting. The htc is better than the others.
> >
> > Clearly the limitation of the hx4700 is the strength of the back light
> > when it is contrasted with a very bright sky as a background.
> >
> > As a comparison I tested my Casio black and white digital watch. It
> > scored "5" in every position for black text (but obviously no colour
> > scores). Interestingly when the face was in shadow it was just as
> > legible as in sunlight - but it looked different, as if the white
> > background has the ability to reflect ambient light even when in shadow.
> >
> > I would appreciate it if others could attempt the above test with
> > different devices. Please give feedback on the devices you test as well
> > as comments and suggestions on the test procedure. It would be very good
> > if people could test multiple devices and give feedback on them so that
> > the relative sunlight readability of different devices can be accessed.
> >
> > If others see the usefulness in this idea, I am happy to post it up on a
> > wiki somewhere. We can keep a log of test results on the same wiki.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Ian
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
> > authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
> > Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Xcsoar-user mailing list
> > Xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 22:41:53 +0000
> From: David Lawley <davidlaw...@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] Evaluating sunlight readability
> To: <ian-xcs...@zsd.co.za>, <xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Message-ID: <blu157-w62c6d0f041c9f3b6b80af0bb...@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> I did a number of such tests some years ago. I found that the older model PDA
> (3700/3800/3900/) were best in direct sunlight. Of all the IPAQ models the
> 5500
>
> was the best compromise for performance/readability. The 4700 fared badly,
> whilst it looked good in the shade it was very poor in direct sunlight.
>
> A transreflective screen seems to be the best for these conditions. I found
> leaning the pda back a little to allow more sunlight in produced the best
> results.
>
> It seems as far as Ipaq are concerned that the higher resoulution and
> brighter the display inthe shade the poorer the result in the sun.
>
> I will get a streak myself eventualy.
>
> Dave L
>
> > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:37:06 +0200
> > From: ian-xcs...@zsd.co.za
> > To: xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: [Xcsoar-user] Evaluating sunlight readability
> >
> > Hi All
> >
> > I bought an hx4700 a while back because it was reportedly one of the
> > best of its generation with regards to sunlight readability. But quit
> > frankly once I had it installed and wired I discovered its readability
> > during flight is still not adequate. I previously flew with a low cost
> > GPS and then a Palm V mounted in the cockpit which also had their
> > display limitations so I have experienced this before. The information
> > provided by XCsoar is so useful, I would never fly without the hx4700.
> > It is just sad that sometimes when I scan the panel I miss some of the
> > details on the PDA.
> >
> > Now I am considering upgrading to the Dell Streak, and actively looking
> > for alternatives, because the Dell is reported to have significantly
> > better sunlight readability than the hx4700. But when I read the
> > reports, it is obvious that sunlight readability is very subjective.
> > What looks good in the shop and during a casual walk outside does not
> > always cut it when you mount the device is in a glider cockpit and go
> > flying.
> >
> > So I figure we should design a means of evaluating sunlight readability
> > so we can compare our experiences in a semi-scientific manner. I took my
> > hx4700 out into the sun yesterday and danced around with it a while and
> > came up with the following:
> >
> >
> > PROCEDURE FOR EVALUATING SUNLIGHT READABILITY OF A PDA DEVICE FOR
> > GLIDING PURPOSES:
> >
> > 1) Requirements:
> >
> > - PDA, PNA, Tablet Computer, smart cell phone or other device to test,
> > with enough battery charge.
> >
> > - XCSoar software, loaded with terrain maps and turn points, or
> > alternate mapping software, like Google maps.
> >
> > - An outdoor location with direct, bright sunlight.
> >
> > - Gliding sunglasses and optionally a gliding hat or peaked cap.
> >
> >
> > 2) Preparation:
> >
> > - Start up a XCsoar on the device, demo mode may prove useful if it is
> > not located in an area covered by your maps and connected to a GPS.
> > (Otherwise use alternate mapping software like Google Maps). Make sure
> > you have some coloured features, like terrain markings, as well as some
> > text details, like turn point or street labels, clearly visible on the
> > screen.
> >
> > - Ensure that the PDA backlight is on full brightness and will maintain
> > that setting for several minutes during the evaluation.
> >
> > - Put on your sunglasses and optionally your hat.
> >
> >
> > 3) Test Positions:
> >
> > Take the device out into the sun and assess it in the following 5
> > positions. In each position the device should be held at arms length,
> > with the screen pointing directly back at your eyes.
> >
> > Position A: Sun shining over your shoulder such that the shadow of your
> > head falls just to one side of the device and the device is in full
> > sunlight. If it has a reflective screen, the reflection of the sun
> > should shine on your neck or chin, just below your eyes.
> >
> > Position E: Hold the device up in front of the sun so the shadow of the
> > device blocks the sun from shining directly into your eyes. Be careful
> > not to look directly into the sun. Wearing a gliding hat or peaked cap
> > allows you to shade your eyes from the sun with the brim of your hat
> > while you are positioning the device.
> >
> > Position C: Rotate your arms in an ark to a point midway between point 1
> > and point 5. Hold the device at right angles to the sun so that it
> > shines across the screen and small adjustments would put in in either
> > shade or sunlight.
> >
> > Position B: Rotate your arms in the ark to a point midway between
> > Position A and Position C. There should be direct sunlight falling on
> > the screen.
> >
> > Position D: Rotate your arms in the ark to a point midway between
> > Position C and Position E. The screen should be in shadow.
> >
> > Note I have described the positions in an order which easiest to
> > understand. Once you know what you are doing it is very easy to go
> > through them in alphabetic (ie positional) order.
> >
> >
> > 4) Test Procedure:
> >
> > Line up the device in the required position and then tilt it slightly to
> > minimize the effects of reflections etc. Move it up to 15 degrees left
> > or right and/or up or down while maintaining the relative positions of
> > the sun, your eyes and the device until you have the best visibility.
> >
> > Hold the position and look away at some details on the horizon for
> > several seconds. Then glance back at the device for 2 seconds. Read some
> > black text details, like turn point labels (or street names) on the map,
> > and then look at colour features like terrain shading. Assign a score
> > from 5 down to 1 for the visibility of the details. The score should be
> > similar to the 5 to 1 score one uses to report on a radio test
> > transmission, ie:
> >
> > 5: Clearly visible
> > 4: Some distortion, but still clearly visible.
> > 3: Significant distortion, but still visible.
> > 2. Lots of distortion, barely visible.
> > 1. Total distortion, information not discernible.
> >
> > Separate scores should be assigned for black text and colour features.
> >
> > Finally make a note how high the sun is above the horizon. This will
> > give others an indication of how bright the conditions were during your
> > assessment.
> >
> >
> > To test the above I tried it with the following devices:
> >
> > - My HP Compaq hx4700.
> >
> > - A college's htc Desire smart phone. (Google shows that this phone came
> > out with two models of screen, AMOLED and SLCD. There is no definitive
> > way to determine which is installed. The original packing does not state
> > AMOLED, which suggests it is SLCD but the test results indicate otherwise).
> >
> > - My well used Nokia 6110 Navigator cell phone.
> >
> > - My Casio black and white digital watch. (Top of the line for a plastic
> > digital watch, but still not an exotic watch).
> >
> >
> > I logged these results:
> >
> > Colour visibility
> > Position A B C D E
> > hx4700 5 4 2 2 1
> > htc Desire 1 4 3 3 2
> > Nokia 6110 nav 1 3 2 2 2
> >
> > Black/white visibility
> > Position A B C D E
> > hx4700 5 4 2 2 1
> > htc Desire 1 4 3 3 2
> > Nokia 6110 nav 4 3 2 2 2
> > Casio digital watch 5 5 5 5 5
> >
> >
> > This was in sunny but winter weather in Cape Town with the sun about 35
> > to 40 deg above the horizon.
> >
> > The most interesting comparison is Position A, with the sun shining
> > directly onto the screen. My hx4700 reads 5, but the htc is a 1. My
> > Nokia goes black and white.
> >
> > In position B both the hx4700 and the htc are clearly visible.
> >
> > The "shade" positions, C, D and E test the strength of the back
> > lighting. The htc is better than the others.
> >
> > Clearly the limitation of the hx4700 is the strength of the back light
> > when it is contrasted with a very bright sky as a background.
> >
> > As a comparison I tested my Casio black and white digital watch. It
> > scored "5" in every position for black text (but obviously no colour
> > scores). Interestingly when the face was in shadow it was just as
> > legible as in sunlight - but it looked different, as if the white
> > background has the ability to reflect ambient light even when in shadow.
> >
> > I would appreciate it if others could attempt the above test with
> > different devices. Please give feedback on the devices you test as well
> > as comments and suggestions on the test procedure. It would be very good
> > if people could test multiple devices and give feedback on them so that
> > the relative sunlight readability of different devices can be accessed.
> >
> > If others see the usefulness in this idea, I am happy to post it up on a
> > wiki somewhere. We can keep a log of test results on the same wiki.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Ian
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
> > authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
> > Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Xcsoar-user mailing list
> > Xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>
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> *******************************************
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