Thanks for looking into it Turbo. I know of at least a dozen people who use XCsoar with multistart AAT, I guess in the grand scheme of things it is not many, my guess would be that perhaps 30 or a bit more people would absolutely need that functionality.
I tried to have a look again to give more info but the problem may be bigger than I first thought. At first I was not able to adjust the placement of the 2nd TP in a task with SP 2xTP and finish. I tried to fix it but no luck so delete the task and create a new one, this is getting worse, now despite 10km and 40km circles in TP1 and TP2 the nominal, min and max distances are the same. I change the task to a racing task and back to AAT and it seems to work. Now to my great surprise the Arm start has come back ! I play a bit around and notice I can force a turn point outside of the sectors, that doesnt seem right. I enable multiple starts and the Arm start option is still there ! but now I no longer can select next start point, the button only says next turnpoint not next start point. I play a bit more and bingo Arms start is gone ! I think maybe I need a bit more method in my testing, so I delete the task create a new one. Again I create a new task, starting with AAT but the distances are all the same, Arm button is also gone, I change it to racing, Arm button is still gone, I change to FAI. Now my sectors are gone (normal), Arm start is back. I change back to AAT add circles Arm Start still there and I also have Next Start point. I think there is a fairly serious problem with the AAT tasks and it is not specific to the multiple starts. I will log a few trac bugs for that as well as the turnpoint outside sector and alternates diameter that cant be changed. The other thing I was talking about that I think would have a larger audience than the multistart is the optimisation of the turnpoints, It is a bit difficult to explain so I will make an example. Lets imagine I have one more TP to turn and then final glide to finish point FP The last circle around TP is large say 50km and the center is exactly North of where I am, say 60km North. FP is 80km south west of the center of TP XCSoar will look at my MC time remaining and other things and recommend a turn somewhere on the west side of the TP sector. Now, perhaps I do not want to go to the west side of the TP sector, west is plains, east is hills and hills seem to work better today so I want to stay on east side. If I force a point on the east side of the sector XCSoar can no longer optimise the distance as FP is fixed and now TP is also fixed so it will give me heading to the point I forced and an estimate of the time over/under as I progress. What I would like is to tell XCSoar is "I like the east side, I want to go on heading 20 deg but you tell me when to turn for FP" What I end up doing is leaving XCS do suggestions, I ignore the suggested point but I just keep looking at the time, remaining. When estimated remaining time hits 5min the point will have converged where I am and I do my turn. That solution works but is not ideal. Cheers Jax -----Original Message----- From: Tobias Bieniek [mailto:tobias.bien...@gmx.de] Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 8:52 PM To: Jacques Graells Cc: Bernie Baer; xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] AAT tasks behaviour Hi Jax, I guess the problem is that we don't have any active australian developers at the moment and nobody else is using such a rule. As for the arming: there was a bug in the task handling that was fixed lately but the arming behaviour shouldn't have changed. Can you find out when it changed (from version x to version y) and what exactly changed? Our plan is to make it configurable (arm start = yes/no) for the future but I can't promise that XCSoar 6.4 will already include it since I'm not really the guy for the task stuff. Turbo 2012/6/27 Jacques Graells <jacques....@gmail.com>: > Well I guess not many people use XCSoar for multi starts AATs, well > hope and patiently wait till enough people have a need for it. > > > > Cheers > > > > Jax > > > > > > > > From: Bernie Baer [mailto:bb...@internode.on.net] > Sent: Tuesday, 26 June 2012 10:39 AM > To: xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] AAT tasks behaviour > > > > > > Jacques raises some very important points for those of us flying > AAT's, and particularly using multiple start points. > It seems that removing the 'Arm Start' option has caused most of these > issues, and reinstating it would solve most of them. > > Re point 1: 'Arm Start' needs to be reinstated Re point 2: As Jax > says, this is very undesirable behaviour. > Re point 3: Stretching my memory, but I think this was previously available? > If so, reinstating it would be good, but I could live without it also. > Re point 4: Again , undesirable. 'Arm Start' reinstated would prevent > that I think. > > Re point 5: I don't quite understand the issues Jax mentions here. > However I have only flown AAT's last year using V6.2.3 and the > optimisation worked quite well. > I would like to play and test this in a current version, however as > already reported in a Bug Report, the 'Target' button is not present > when there is no GPS signal (like in my study!). > This needs to be fixed. > > Re point 6: Again, with V6.2.3, the optimisation worked quite well. I > didn't come home 15 minutes early, usually just over time as desired. > > Re point 7: Obviously a bug; the chosen default start point diameter > (or any parameter) should apply to all SP's including alternates. > > Regards, Bernie. > > > Quote: 'Jax' > > Since V6 there has been many changes to the AAT tasks in XCSoar and it > is at a point now where it is a quite difficult to use it for AAT and > particularly multi startpoints AAT. > I'd like to share some behaviours of the current version 6.3.8 so > perhaps people can express their wishes of how it should work and the > developers can look into it. > I understand that multi starts AAT are not used everywhere but here in > Australia, unless it is a GP, in any given comp you will get an AAT > day and most of the time it is with multiple starts. > > 1) We no longer can Arm the start, the task is armed from the > beginning of the flight. This particularly annoying when waiting for > the gate to open and fly in and out of the start sector, the task > keeps starting and re-starting. > > 2) If we select a SP via Next Startpoint button and enter another > SP sector, then the target becomes the SP we just entered rather than > the one we selected. > > Here is a case where it is a real pain We are in a comp and we are > assigned 3 different SP SP1, SP2 and SP3. > Based on the wind and location we decide to start on SP1. > We select SP1 using "Next Starpoint" button. > While waiting for the start gate to be open then a cloud pops on SP2 > and we decide to go there. > When entering the SP2 sector the target start changes to SP2 which we > do not want. > When leaving SP2 to go to SP1 the task starts and the target become TP1. > We then need to select previous TP in XCSoar and cycle trough the SP > till we have SP1 as target again. > > 3) There is no notification where we enter the starting sector > Obviously this makes us having to look at XCSoar more than desirable > at a busy time when flying in close company of many other gliders. > > 4) If we fly through another SP after starting the task the task > re-starts. Depending on our intention we should be able to prevent > that behaviour. > > 5) The optimisation is not very flexible, either it picks the > point for you which is generally not appropriate for an AAT or you > pick the point and you have to time your turn ie what is XCSoar > supposed to do for you. What would be nice is if we can give > directions to XCSoar and it make picks the point for us, as an example > give a heading and XCSoar adjusts how far to go in that heading. > > 6) In my experience the calculations for time are always > extremely pessimistic, if I make my turn for and arrival at +5 > minutes, I will invariably be early. > > 7) When changing the diameter of the start point after alternates > have been defined, the alternates do not change and the only way to > change them is to delete them and re-create. > > It would be good if we can have feedback from other pilots about how > they think XCSoar should behave for AAT multi starts > > Cheers > Jax > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. > Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the > latest in malware threats. > http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > Xcsoar-user mailing list > Xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. 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