Yes, definitely TooMuchInformation.

  I hope that single hardware test kit VHD download imports into xen, runs,
and gives us a starting point and clear work items.

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 9:47 PM Xentrigued <[email protected]> wrote:

> First and foremost, many thanks for your thoughtful and thorough response
> and also for providing a multitude of genuinely helpful information!
>
>
>
> Secondly:  Wow, that’s quite a homework assignment!!
>
>
>
> I will absolutely begin to work my way through the resources you cited and
> will report back once some of those tests have been completed.  You’ve
> given me an excellent starting point for further inquiry.
>
>
>
> To be very honest, I wasn’t sure where to turn next in the event that no
> member of this august body had anything to say about this.  (It’s kind of
> intimidating and not unlike going before the Wizard of Oz.)
>
>
>
> So again, thank you so much for all of the good information and also for
> your kindness in reaching out.
>
>
>
> *From:* Rob Townley <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 24, 2021 9:33 PM
> *To:* Xentrigued <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: Nested Virtualization of Hyper-V on Xen Not Working
>
>
>
> I encourage you to run the Windows Hardware Lab Kit 11/02/2018
> <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/hlk/> or HLK or
> maybe try the VHLK.  The VHLK
> <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/hlk/getstarted/getstarted-vhlk>is
> a free VHD file download of win2016 that has all the tests necessary
> built-in.  So you could manually download the test kit on your existing
> Windows VM or attempt the VHD.   "*Default login credentials are
> HLKAdminUser with password Testpassword,1"   *
>
>
>
> Please post the results.   Citrix 8.1 and 8.2 are listed as validated
> <https://www.windowsservercatalog.com/results.aspx?&bCatID=1521&cpID=2185&avc=0&ava=0&avt=0&avq=0&OR=1&PGS=25>
> and so would be very interesting to see any differences in test results
> running XCP-ng 8.2 and Citrix 8.2.
>
>
>
> Why run the hardware lab kit in a virtualized environment and directly on
> the underlying hardware?  Because those tests are used to validate for the
> SVVP <https://www.windowsservercatalog.com/svvp.aspx?svvppage=svvp.htm>.
> Microsoft has something similar to their Hardware Compatibility List, aka
> HCL.   SVVP
> <https://www.windowsservercatalog.com/svvp.aspx?svvppage=svvp.htm> is
> Microsoft's Server Virtualization Validation Program.   SVVP validates that
> Windows Operating Systems and APPS run on top of other hypervisors and once
> validated will receive technical support.  SVVP has been around for over a
> decade but has of course changed over the years.   Recently,  it has been
> making news because Win11 / Win2022 requires a TPM 2.0 chip, but XCP-NG
> XEN does not yet support that <https://github.com/xcp-ng/xcp/issues/471>.
>    If the hypervisor is SVVP certified, then running MS Hyper-V Windows on
> top of any validated hypervisor would be much more likely to work and
> possibly supported directly by MS and tsanet.org.  Canonical and RedHat
> are in tsanet, but would like to see the Linux Foundation or Vates itself.
>
>
>
> Microsoft server software and supported virtualization
> environments 09/08/2020 6 minutes to read
> <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/virtualization/microsoft-server-software-support-policy>
> Support partners for non-Microsoft hardware virtualization software
> <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/virtualization/non-microsoft-hardware-virtualization-software>
>
> WindowsServerCatalog.com and then click on SVVP in the upper right and
> then Products
> <https://www.windowsservercatalog.com/results.aspx?&bCatID=1521&cpID=0&avc=0&ava=0&avq=0&OR=1&PGS=25>
>
>
>
> <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/virtualization/non-microsoft-hardware-virtualization-software>
>
> Design Session - Alternative vTPM 2.0 Backend to Comply with Upcoming SVVP
> Changes <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abkRRcoYWCQ>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abkRRcoYWCQ
>
>
>
> Enabling UEFI Secure Boot on Xen - Robert Eshleman, Vates SAS
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_IhKjK7EgA>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_IhKjK7EgA&t=388s
> Support vTPM for guests #471 https://github.com/xcp-ng/xcp/issues/471
> <https://github.com/xcp-ng/xcp/issues/471>
>
> https://github.com/xcp-ng/xcp/issues/471
>
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/hlk/
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 11:12 PM Xentrigued <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> RATIONALE: Features in recent versions of Windows now REQUIRE Hyper-V
> support to work.  In particular, Windows Containers, Sandbox, Docker
> Desktop
> and the Windows Subsystem for Linux version 2 (WSL2).  Running Windows in a
> VM as a development and test platform is currently a common requirement for
> various user segments and will likely become necessary for production in
> the
> future.  Nested virtualization of Hyper-V currently works on VMware ESXi,
> Microsoft Hyper-V and KVM-based hypervisors.  This puts Xen and its
> derivatives at a disadvantage when choosing a hypervisor.
>
> WHAT IS NOT WORKING?  Provided the requirements set forth in:
> https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Nested_Virtualization_in_Xen have been
> met,
> an hvm guest running Windows 10 PRO Version 21H1 x64 shows that all four
> requirements for running Hyper-V are available using the msinfo32.exe or
> systeminfo.exe commands.  More granular knowledge of the CPU capabilities
> exposed to the guest can be observed using the Sysinternals Coreinfo64.exe
> command.  CPUID flags present appear to mirror those on other working
> nested
> hypervisor configurations.
>
> Enabling Windows Features for Hyper-V, Virtual Machine Platform, etc. all
> appear to work without error.  However, after the finishing reboot, Hyper-V
> is simply not active.  This--despite the fact that vmcompute.exe (Hyper-V
> host compute service) is running and there are no errors in the logs.  In
> addition, all four Hyper-V prerequisites continue to show as available.
>
> By contrast, after the finishing reboot of an analogous Windows VM running
> on ESXi, the four prerequisites are reversed:  hypervisor is now active;
> vmx, ept and urg (unrestricted guest) are all off as viewed with the
> Coreinfo64.exe -v command.  Furthermore, all functions requiring Hyper-V
> are
> now active and working as expected.
>
> This deficiency has been observed in two test setups running Xen 4.15 from
> source and XCP-ng 8.2, both running on Intel with all of the latest,
> generally available patches.  We presume that the same behavior is present
> on Citrix Hypervisor 8.2 as well.
>
> SUMMATION:
> Clearly, much effort has already been expended to support the Viridian
> enlightenments that optimize running Windows on Xen.  It also looks like a
> significant amount of effort has been put forth to advance nested
> virtualization in general.
>
> Therefore, if it would be helpful, I am willing to perform testing and
> provide feedback and logs as appropriate in order to help get this working.
>
> While my day job is managing a heterogeneous collection of systems running
> on various hypervisors, I have learned the rudiments of integrating patches
> and rebuilding Xen from source so could no doubt be useful in assisting you
> with this worthwhile endeavor.
>
>
>

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