Am Fri, 9 Feb 2018 17:45:43 +0100
schrieb Wolfgang Denk <>:

> Dear Karim,
> In message <> you
> wrote:
> >   
> > >>    - usage stats could be extracted from our website, downloads,
> > >>      mailinglists  
> > > 
> > > We have to be very careful here.  German law is pretty strict
> > > about what you can (or rather must not) do with such data...  
> > 
> > I'm obviously not in a position to provide any sort of legal advice
> > nor would I recommend violating any laws. However, it would
> > probably be worth getting some specifics on this instead of just
> > shying away because of an unspecified potential issue. The point
> > is, it's my understanding that there would be no selling nor
> > advertising of this nor use for any commercial purpose. The only
> > purpose here is to get a better understanding of who is using
> > Xenomai and where they are physically located to plan activities
> > accordingly and provide a more accurate picture to the larger open
> > source community as to the composition of the Xenomai user-base.  
> This is not intended to "shy away" anybody.  But the laws are really
> strict. Yes,we can easily generate information like numners of
> downloads or such, without problems.  But just storing accessing IP
> addresses (even whenyou never ever disclose these to anybody) means
> you are storing pesonal information, and you might require
> permission from the accessing user.  So for exmaple trying to
> evaluate accessing domain names to generate statistics about the
> number of companies who are interested in Xenomai would be something
> which I would not do without prior legal clearance.

I do not want to continue that discussion forever, especially not in
this thread. We all seem to agree that we do not want collect stats. In
case we change our mind ... at the meeting there was a comment by Karim,
where he suggested to use google analytics.
Doing that or using a "like-button" of some sort might allow us to work
around possible legal problems we have when hosting in Germany.

> > > I doubt this will actually work.  In my experience, there is a
> > > pretty large base of users who intentionally do NOT advertise
> > > their use of Xenomai.  
> > 
> > That's a good point. Still, Xenomai has historically suffered from 
> > having a primarily "anonymous" user base. Yet, that user base is 
> > hampered by the lack of seeming traction given that few are willing
> > to "endorse" the project.  
> This is only natural, I think. We are not one of the classic open
> source communities like Linux of U-Boot have.  You don't run Xenomai
> on your toy project to scratch some private itches.  Xenomai is
> intended for and primarily applied in industrial environments.
> The overwhelming majority of Xenomai users known to me don't do this
> for fun, but for business. And many of them are not permitted to
> disclose any details of their work, often not even the name of the
> company.  This has not much to do with being willing or not, but
> with being permitted.

That is the situation today, which does not mean that we need to
respect that wish. If you really want to disguise your use of Xenomai
you need to take your own measures (i.e. subscribe with your gmail and
do not download from your company network etc.). Catering for such
anonymous use is not our job.

> > That's the core issue. If no one is going to show public and strong 
> > support for this project, it's going to be close to impossible to
> > show the value of the project to the wider open source community,
> > especially the Linux kernel developers. The project's value can
> > only be argued for so long simply based on logical arguments when
> > compared to other approaches.  
> This problem is as old as Xenomai.  We tried before to overcome
> this, for example with the first (and so far only, sic!) Xenomai
> User's Meeting of 2009 where we were actually able to find a few
> companies willing to publicly confirm their use of Xenomai ([1]).
> We did a number of projects based on Xenomai since, and please
> don't assume that we did not try to get more such publicity.

Here i hear yet another wish to establish a regular community event.
Maybe a topic worth stating a new thread on.


> I really don't want to discourage you, but please don't hold your
> breath!
> [1]
> Best regards,
> Wolfgang Denk

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