On 16 oct. 2010, at 19:12, Paul Isambert wrote:
>
> That's absolutely normal, that's even the reason why we use TeX :)
> TeX builds a paragraph as a whole; if you remove some words at the end of
> your paragraph, it might change its entire shape.
I sorta knew that at a certain point in time… but it has obviously not
registered, since I was surprised by that behaviour!
>
>> I also noticed that including or not
>> \defaultfontfeatures{Mapping=tex-text}
>> changes things quite a bit while \frenchspacing did nothing obvious. I
>> thought it would deal with spaces around the guillemets etc. but no. I'm
>> wondering why I bothered including it. Is that a benefit from polyglossia?
>>
>>
>
> \frenchspacing has nothing to with polyglossia,
I was not clear. I was wondering if somehow, although that would have been
surprising, polyglossia dealt with spaces around punctuation marks.
> and it is extremely important, even though you might not notice at once. It's
> a macro inherited from plain TeX, whose effect is to disable extra space
> after strong punctuation marks (e.g. a period), which extra space is used in
> (some flavors of) English typography. So keep it, although indeed it doesn't
> deal with space around guillemets.
Thank you for that clarification.
On 16 oct. 2010, at 19:44, [email protected] wrote:
> The "Mapping=tex-text" options makes available all usual TeX ligature
> conventions (`? for the reversed question mark, --- for a dash and so on).
which is why I was surprised to see the aspect of that little paragraph change
so much, since it does not have any particular ligatures or dashes etc. Or so I
thought until I realised it was all the straight apostrophes that were curling
up.
>
> It's quite subtle, I believe. There are no patterns containing U+2019 (RIGHT
> SINGLE QUOTATION MARK), into which each apostrophe is changed by
> tex-text.map; so the pattern "1informat" comes into play, creating a
> hyphenation
> point in "l'information" just after the character U+2019.
>
[…]
> Indeed, also "l'alcool" gets hyphenated as "l’-al-cool", as there is the
> pattern "1alcool"
> on line 126 of hyph-fr.tex
> This is a problem which should be examined by the "hyphenation pattern team":
> all patterns containing the apostrophe should be duplicated with U+2019 in
> its place.
> It may show its effects also in Italian and all other languages where the
> apostrophe
> gets a nonzero \lccode for hyphenation purposes.
and
On 16 oct. 2010, at 20:42, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> what you
> observe is a "known problem that needs a nice idea to solve it" (or we
> can simply create and load another bunch of patterns) and it's present
> in both XeTeX and LuaTeX (only that it's mapped to quotation mark in
> LuaTeX).
[…]
> We would need to double all the hyphenation patterns to account for
> that case (including both apostrophe and quotation marks). An
> alternative would be to "explain to engine" that two characters
> hyphenate in exactly the same way. The latter is possible, but we
> never (managed to) implement it. It might be as simple as one line of
> code though ...
OK, so I understand the nature of the problem now, thanks to all of you.
As much as I would like to find that one line of code, my coding skills are
inexistent unfortunately, and I could never produce what the great minds on
this list have made. If I somehow reach illumination and find a way to deal
with this, I will of course let you know.
On 16 oct. 2010, at 20:57, Jonathan Kew wrote:
>
> Would setting
>
> \lccode "2019 = "27
>
> be any help?
I do have it in the document preamble, to no effect (with straight or curled
apostrophes).
In the meantime, the "solution" I used was to change fonts…
Thank you,
Cyril
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